Although I do not agree that RedHat and ms are in many way the same. There are important things, for Debian, or any distribution, to learn from the comparison. The simple fact is that there is a direct correlation between name recognition and market share. Achieving substantial increased market share, especially outside the techie world, requires marketing the distribution. This is usually means advertising. Adverting costs money. Regular advertising requires a fairly high, predictable and regular income stream. For a noncommercial distribution like debian this means increasing donations. One way to do this is to develop new applications in house that have the debian name. And to specifically ask for donations to Debian from users of the application regardless of the distribution it runs on. Still keep it open and give it away, but include some notice like the following; " Debian Good-bye World was developed by the Debian Project .... If you are able to make a contribution please do so" or some such thing. Or even more simply to just ask for donations on regular basis There are also free ways to increase name recognition and market share of Debian. It may be a mistake to rely so heavily on internet support for the distribution. More localized user groups might make it easier for new users, and would increase Debian's presense in the local community. This obviously increases name recognition. Microsoft is a success because, rightly or wrongly, users associate that name brand with personal computers. If Red hat achieves dominance on the Linux platform. It will be for the same reason. Debian could remain/ become a smaller techie oriented distribution. That's fine with me. But, if Debian wants to to be a thriving distribution for the end user and business markets we should not waste time whining about it. We should accept these facts and act accordingly. Because this is the way things are in the real world