Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread Mike Hommey
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 08:06:31AM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 07:50:49AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > List masters, this is evidence that Frans is not going to stop this, and > > > as i > > > asked yes

Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 08:49:46AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 08:06:31AM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 07:50:49AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote: > > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > List masters, this is evid

Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread Jeroen van Wolffelaar
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 09:38:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 08:49:46AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 08:06:31AM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > (blah blah blah blah) > > > > *sigh* and here it starts again... > > And you

RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
Hello, I paste here the last instance of the draft proposal by the debian kernel team [1]. Well, mostly me and Frederik, with direct input from Manoj, and reflecting assorted comments from others, Steve and Anthony being the most prominent ones. Please review this, especially with regard to engl

Re: [PROPOSAL] Postpone the etch release until all firmware issues are solved.

2006-10-06 Thread Sam Hocevar
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006, Neil McGovern wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:07:20PM +0200, Frederik Schueler wrote: > > > === START OF PROPOSAL === > > > The debian project resolves that : > > > > > > 1) We recognizes that there are many uncleared issues with the > > > current binary firmware file

Re: draft ballot for the firmware vote

2006-10-06 Thread Don Armstrong
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006, Sven Luther wrote: > Manoj, if you don't stop this manipulation now, i am going to ask > for your recall as secretary, not sure if this is possible under the > constitution. Manoj has not done *ANYTHING* that requires secretarial powers so far. Indeed, the secretary *CANNOT* i

Re: Kernel Firmware issue: are GPLed sourceless firmwares legal to distribute ?

2006-10-06 Thread Markus Laire
On 10/6/06, MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd defer to Larry Doolittle on this one, but I think unless we have some reason to think there is another form used as source code, it's fine to consider the only codes our source code - for all we know, it was written that way. Best of all would be

Re: draft ballot for the firmware vote

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 01:01:10AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Fri, 06 Oct 2006, Sven Luther wrote: > > Manoj, if you don't stop this manipulation now, i am going to ask > > for your recall as secretary, not sure if this is possible under the > > constitution. > > Manoj has not done *ANYTHING

Re: Kernel Firmware issue: are GPLed sourceless firmwares legal to distribute ?

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 11:18:09AM +0300, Markus Laire wrote: > On 10/6/06, MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I'd defer to Larry Doolittle on this one, but I think unless we have > >some reason to think there is another form used as source code, it's > >fine to consider the only codes our source

Re: are GPLed sourceless firmwares legal to distribute ?

2006-10-06 Thread Markus Laire
On 10/5/06, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 02:57:33PM +0300, Markus Laire wrote: > Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for this > violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the future. You do realise we're going to voluntarily stop it immediately after

Re: Asking for the ban of Frans Pop from debian-vote ... (Was: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware)

2006-10-06 Thread Andreas Barth
* Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061006 01:21]: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:45:05PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote: > > The reason why you were banned from debian-release was mostly because of > > turning it in a discussion list which it is not intended for. > > It was rather because someone has an

Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread MJ Ray
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > Sure. However it makes no sense having a discussion about individual blobs > or, even worse, about whether these are distributable under the GPL at all. > As Steve has pointed out repeatedly, that last responsibility lies with the > maintainer (the kerne

Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread MJ Ray
Anthony Towns wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:09:05PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > > Anthony Towns wrote: > > > Frederik's proposal as amended by Manoj has been seconded by: > > [...] > > > MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > That is not a second of Frederik's proposal. Does it still count? > > It

Re: are GPLed sourceless firmwares legal to distribute ?

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 01:29:01PM +0300, Markus Laire wrote: > On 10/5/06, Anthony Towns wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 02:57:33PM +0300, Markus Laire wrote: > >> Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for this > >> violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the futur

Re: draft ballot for the firmware vote

2006-10-06 Thread MJ Ray
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Manoj, if you don't stop this manipulation now, i am going to ask for your > recall as secretary, not sure if this is possible under the constitution. Why the $DEITY is this personal abuse public? Why the $DEITY is this personal abuse even sent? How about

Re: RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread MJ Ray
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > == START OF PROPOSAL == > Definition: For the purpose of this resolution, the "firmware" mentioned below > design binary data encoded as hexdumps in some of the linux kernel drivers and s/design/&ates/ ; s/en

Re: Kernel Firmware issue: are GPLed sourceless firmwares legal to distribute ?

2006-10-06 Thread Bill Allombert
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:09:53AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > It is not reasonable for the project to vote on questions of legality, nor > is it appropriate to rely on debian-legal for questions of legality. If the May I remind that debian-legal is a mailing list ? > relevant delegates/maint

Re: RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 01:40:47PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > == START OF PROPOSAL == > > Definition: For the purpose of this resolution, the "firmware" mentioned > > below > > design binary data encoded as hex

Re: RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread Andreas Barth
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061006 10:00]: > I paste here the last instance of the draft proposal by the debian kernel team > [1]. Well, mostly me and Frederik, with direct input from Manoj, and > reflecting > assorted comments from others, Steve and Anthony being the most prominent > ones

Re: [AMENDMENT]: Release Etch now, with source-less but legal and freely licensed firmware

2006-10-06 Thread Frans Pop
On Friday 06 October 2006 14:19, MJ Ray wrote: > As I've pointed out and repeat again here, getting this wrong may cause > criminal liability of some resellers and mirrors. Ack. > I think it's fair > for -vote to issue a clear position statement and (hopefully) protect > the project from attack

Second call for votes for "DFSG #2 applies to all programmatic works"

2006-10-06 Thread Debian Project Secretary
SECOND CALL FOR VOTES FOR "DFSG #2 APPLIES TO ALL PROGRAMMATIC WORKS" == === = === = == === == === == Voting period starts 00:00:01 UTC on Sunday,1st October, 2006 Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on Saturday, 14th October, 2006. Th

Re: RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread Frans Pop
On Friday 06 October 2006 14:42, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061006 10:00]: > > I paste here the last instance of the draft proposal by the debian > > kernel team [1]. Well, mostly me and Frederik, with direct input from > > Manoj, and reflecting assorted comments from

Re: RFC: Final version of kernel team's firmware GR proposal, coined to be consensual to all those of good faith involved in the current discussion.

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 09:21:21PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Friday 06 October 2006 14:42, Andreas Barth wrote: > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061006 10:00]: > > > I paste here the last instance of the draft proposal by the debian > > > kernel team [1]. Well, mostly me and Frederik, with

[PROPOSAL] Final consensual proposal for the problematic firmware issue in the linux kernel sources.

2006-10-06 Thread Sven Luther
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, ... Since there seems nobody objected to the proposal, and the few returns i had were mostly positive, i am now making the following proposal. I will add below the original rationale of Frederik's proposal, on whom this one is based, as well a