On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 12:32 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
> two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the
> later more prominent.
Is the Debian Images team willing to continue to produce the images
contai
Vincent Bernat dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 10:46:56PM +0200]:
> Back to the vote, another option would be to not consider firmware (not
> running on the CPU) as software and we keep the 100% free software images
> with non-free firmware included. This implies this new component should only
> include
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 06:43:41PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Theodore Ts'o dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 04:13:20PM -0400]:
> > Whether we recommend the one with non-free firmware or not (some have
> > proposed that the "free" installer would have "visual priority",
> > whatever that means), I suspe
Thanks Gunnar,
I'm happy that somebody has suggested another option for a ballot!
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 12:32:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original
>proposal.
>
>I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
Theodore Ts'o dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 04:13:20PM -0400]:
> Whether we recommend the one with non-free firmware or not (some have
> proposed that the "free" installer would have "visual priority",
> whatever that means), I suspect there will be various Linux newbie or
> FAQ's, external to Debian,
Hello,
On Mon 22 Aug 2022 at 12:32PM -05, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>
> I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original
> proposal.
>
> I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
> two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the
> lat
On 2022-08-22 22:13, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
So there may be some unintended consequences where new users may
associate "100% free software" with "not functional" and "induces pain
and frustration", such that it might end up *hurting* the cause of
free software.
Well, that's the truth when it com
Theodore Ts'o left as an exercise for the reader:
> Whether we recommend the one with non-free firmware or not (some have
> proposed that the "free" installer would have "visual priority",
> whatever that means), I suspect there will be various Linux newbie or
> FAQ's, external to Debian, that will
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 11:32:23AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>
> If a free installer is still produced and offered alongside the one
> including non-free-firmware, would you feel more at ease? That sounds
> like an easy compromise to make, and many people would probably
> welcome it.
>
> Debian w
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 11:32:23AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Bart Martens dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 06:24:32PM +0200]:
> > > > We will include non-free firmware packages from the
> > > > "non-free-firmware" section of the Debian archive on our official
> > > > media (installer images and l
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 12:32:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original
> proposal.
>
> I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
> two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the
> later
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 12:32:54PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original
> proposal.
>
> I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
> two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the
> later
I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original
proposal.
I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce
two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the
later more prominent.
=
We will include non-f
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 11:32:23AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>Bart Martens dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 06:24:32PM +0200]:
>>
>> We'd take away the free installer.
>
>If a free installer is still produced and offered alongside the one
>including non-free-firmware, would you feel more at ease? That s
Bart Martens dijo [Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 06:24:32PM +0200]:
> > > We will include non-free firmware packages from the
> > > "non-free-firmware" section of the Debian archive on our official
> > > media (installer images and live images).
> > > ...
> > > We will publish these images as offi
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 05:57:36PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 05:48:28PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > Tobias Frost writes:
> > That seems incorrect. Here is a quote from the proposal:
> >
> > We will include non-free firmware packages from the
> > "non-free-fir
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 03:57:01PM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 07:39:21AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > Ansgar writes:
> >
> > > On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 16:23 +0200, Simon Richter wrote:
> > >> Do we need to update the Debian Social Contract for that?
> > >> Specificall
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 05:48:28PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> Tobias Frost writes:
> That seems incorrect. Here is a quote from the proposal:
>
> We will include non-free firmware packages from the
> "non-free-firmware" section of the Debian archive on our official
> media (installer
On 8/18/22 23:04, Ansgar wrote:
Steve McIntyre writes:
Hi a11!
I'm proposing to change how we handle non-free firmware in
Debian. I've written about this a few times already this year [1, 2]
and I ran a session on the subject at DebConf [3].
TL;DR: The way we deal with (non-free) firmware
Tobias Frost writes:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 07:39:21AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> Ansgar writes:
>>
>> > On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 16:23 +0200, Simon Richter wrote:
>> >> Do we need to update the Debian Social Contract for that?
>> >> Specifically paragraph 1, which currently reads
>> >>
Quoting Tobias Frost (2022-08-22 15:57:01)
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 07:39:21AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > Ansgar writes:
> >
> > > On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 16:23 +0200, Simon Richter wrote:
> > >> Do we need to update the Debian Social Contract for that?
> > >> Specifically paragraph 1, whic
On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 07:39:21AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> Ansgar writes:
>
> > On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 16:23 +0200, Simon Richter wrote:
> >> Do we need to update the Debian Social Contract for that?
> >> Specifically paragraph 1, which currently reads
> >>
> >> Debian will remain 10
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