I have a bit of a cantankerous question for the candidates:
Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful people
who are of course very dedicated to t
I have a bit of a cantankerous question for the candidates:
Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful people
who are of course very dedicated to t
> Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
Yes, definitely.
> Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
> that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful people
> who are of course very dedicated to the project... none of them seems
>
Gergely Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
> > that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful
> > people who are of course very dedicated to the project... none of
> > them seems to have really done much to take De
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:11:20AM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
One of the difficulties in leading Debian is making sure you're going
somewhere people want to go. To take a simple example, consider the
non-free thing: we've had all
Anthony Towns writes:
> > Frankly, the most exciting development in Debian I've seen lately
> > is Bruce Perens' UserLinux, [...]
> For example, as well as the many things Bruce came up with that
> worked out, he also proposed things like switching us to rpm, and
> dropping packages like "bitchx
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 06:43:00PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Anthony Towns writes:
> > > Frankly, the most exciting development in Debian I've seen lately
> > > is Bruce Perens' UserLinux, [...]
> > For example, as well as the many things Bruce came up with that
> > worked out, he also propo
Anthony Towns writes:
> Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough that
> Bruce decided to leave two or three times. That other people don't
> want to put up with that degree of unpleasantness and choose to
> "coordinate" instead of "lead" shouldn't be particularly surprising
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns
said:
> Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough that
> Bruce decided to leave two or three times.
Hmm. You make it sound like the lack of people willing to give
up heir ideas of right and wrong to be herded like
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 03:38:52PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> I wonder why Debian seems worse off than other
> project in this regard though? I don't see this much acrimony in
> other more or less important free software groups I'm involved with.
I think the difference is that Debian doesn't
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:59:24AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns
> said:
Oh, one thing I forgot in Bdale's term was the migration to postfix from
qmail for lists.debian.org.
> > Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough
Anthony Towns wrote:
> No, a leader's not a dictator. Let's delve into this some more: I spent
> a fair bit of time advocating what I thought was the appropriate course
> of action on non-free. I prepared a resolution, and it even won the day.
> For my involvement in this debate, I've been called
Anthony Towns writes:
> No, a leader's not a dictator. Let's delve into this some more: I spent
> a fair bit of time advocating what I thought was the appropriate course
> of action on non-free. I prepared a resolution, and it even won the day.
> For my involvement in this debate, I've been calle
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:13:41 +1000, Anthony Towns
said:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:59:24AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns
>> said:
>> > Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough
>> > that Bruce decided to leave two o
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 08:50:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Anthony Towns writes:
> > [0]
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200401/msg01914.html
> This does not say you are a hypocrite. In this message, Nathanael
> Nerode says you convinced him "of the historic
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 12:50:26AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > No, the problem is that if you try to lead people you'll quickly get
> > someone accusing you of, eg, trying to herd them like sheep. Or
> > otherwise implying that you're a disrespectful fool, incapable of
> > dealing with peopl
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:24:08 +1000, Anthony Towns
said:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 12:50:26AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > No, the problem is that if you try to lead people you'll quickly
>> > get someone accusing you of, eg, trying to herd them like
>> > sheep. Or otherwise implying that
Anthony Towns writes:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 08:50:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> > Anthony Towns writes:
> > > [0]
> > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200401/msg01914.html
> > This does not say you are a hypocrite. In this message, Nathanael
> > Nerode say
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 11:33:45AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Your arguments were wrong because people have lots of trouble
> understanding what the Social Contract says in so many words.
People have lots of trouble understanding many other things, too.
Included in the set of things that
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The diversity is not really all that diverse -- and calling
> this group a "universal representative slice" is about as arrogant as
> the "world Series" purports to represent the world.
Heh. I think the idea is that Major League Baseball inc
On Wednesday 24 March 2004 22:20, Raul Miller wrote:
> People have lots of trouble understanding many other things, too.
> Included in the set of things that people have trouble
> understanding are people, computers, and just about everything
> else.
IMHO, the only thing that is actually difficult
> Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
Yes, definitely.
> Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
> that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful people
> who are of course very dedicated to the project... none of them seems
>
Gergely Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Recent "leaders" have all been coordinator type people. And while
> > that's fine... they've all been nice, intelligent, thoughtful
> > people who are of course very dedicated to the project... none of
> > them seems to have really done much to take De
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:11:20AM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Do you think it's possible for Debian to have a leader anymore?
One of the difficulties in leading Debian is making sure you're going
somewhere people want to go. To take a simple example, consider the
non-free thing: we've had all
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Frankly, the most exciting development in Debian I've seen lately
> > is Bruce Perens' UserLinux, [...]
> For example, as well as the many things Bruce came up with that
> worked out, he also proposed things like switching us to rpm, and
> dropping pa
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 06:43:00PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > Frankly, the most exciting development in Debian I've seen lately
> > > is Bruce Perens' UserLinux, [...]
> > For example, as well as the many things Bruce came up with that
> > worked
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough that
> Bruce decided to leave two or three times. That other people don't
> want to put up with that degree of unpleasantness and choose to
> "coordinate" instead of "lead" shouldn't be part
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough that
> Bruce decided to leave two or three times.
Hmm. You make it sound like the lack of people willing to give
up heir ideas of right and wrong
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 03:38:52PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> I wonder why Debian seems worse off than other
> project in this regard though? I don't see this much acrimony in
> other more or less important free software groups I'm involved with.
I think the difference is that Debian doesn't
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:59:24AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
Oh, one thing I forgot in Bdale's term was the migration to postfix from
qmail for lists.debian.org.
> > Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was u
Anthony Towns wrote:
> No, a leader's not a dictator. Let's delve into this some more: I spent
> a fair bit of time advocating what I thought was the appropriate course
> of action on non-free. I prepared a resolution, and it even won the day.
> For my involvement in this debate, I've been called
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No, a leader's not a dictator. Let's delve into this some more: I spent
> a fair bit of time advocating what I thought was the appropriate course
> of action on non-free. I prepared a resolution, and it even won the day.
> For my involvement in this deba
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:13:41 +1000, Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:59:24AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:51 +1000, Anthony Towns
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> > Yes, it is. And Debian's response to that was unpleasant enough
>
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 08:50:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200401/msg01914.html
> This does not say you are a hypocrite. In this message, Nathanael
> Nerode says you convinced him "o
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 12:50:26AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > No, the problem is that if you try to lead people you'll quickly get
> > someone accusing you of, eg, trying to herd them like sheep. Or
> > otherwise implying that you're a disrespectful fool, incapable of
> > dealing with peopl
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:24:08 +1000, Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 12:50:26AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > No, the problem is that if you try to lead people you'll quickly
>> > get someone accusing you of, eg, trying to herd them like
>> > sheep. Or other
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 08:50:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> > Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200401/msg01914.html
> > This does not say you are a hypocrite. In this me
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 11:33:45AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Your arguments were wrong because people have lots of trouble
> understanding what the Social Contract says in so many words.
People have lots of trouble understanding many other things, too.
Included in the set of things that
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The diversity is not really all that diverse -- and calling
> this group a "universal representative slice" is about as arrogant as
> the "world Series" purports to represent the world.
Heh. I think the idea is that Major League Baseball inc
On Wednesday 24 March 2004 22:20, Raul Miller wrote:
> People have lots of trouble understanding many other things, too.
> Included in the set of things that people have trouble
> understanding are people, computers, and just about everything
> else.
IMHO, the only thing that is actually difficult
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 02:56:15AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>
> One of the things Bruce did (before my time, I think) was ban people from
> the lists, or convert them to "daily digest mode" for not acting with
> an appropriate amount of decorum. I can't imagine a DPL getting away
> with trying
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 02:56:15AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>
> One of the things Bruce did (before my time, I think) was ban people from
> the lists, or convert them to "daily digest mode" for not acting with
> an appropriate amount of decorum. I can't imagine a DPL getting away
> with trying
On Wednesday 24 March 2004 06:34, Anand Kumria wrote:
> I, personally, suspect that the unfriendliness of Debian is behind
> a lot of requests for smaller mailing lists seen by listmaster
> these days. A lot of people don't bother to use the main mailing
> lists anymore but instead find it simpler
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 03:34:35PM +1100, Anand Kumria wrote:
> Converting people to daily-digest mode is something that both Pascal and
> I talked about recently. Considering the amount of acrimony various
> participants have had, seen recently on debian-vote, and the fact that
> some of the publi
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 03:34:35PM +1100, Anand Kumria wrote:
Converting people to daily-digest mode is something that both Pascal and
I talked about recently. Considering the amount of acrimony various
participants have had, seen recently on debian-vote, and the fact that
some of the public (and
Hi, Jonathan Walther wrote:
> I prefer my fellow Debian brothers to develop rhinocerous hides. :-)
Disregarding your smiley for a moment (I'm not sure what you want say with
it anyway): I disagree.
Rhino hides tend to come with Rhino horns, which people then get in the
habit of using as an all-p
> "Anand" == Anand Kumria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Anand> I, personally, suspect that the unfriendliness of Debian is
Anand> behind a lot of requests for smaller mailing lists seen by
Anand> listmaster these days. A lot of people don't bother to use
Anand> the main mailing l
On Wednesday 24 March 2004 06:34, Anand Kumria wrote:
> I, personally, suspect that the unfriendliness of Debian is behind
> a lot of requests for smaller mailing lists seen by listmaster
> these days. A lot of people don't bother to use the main mailing
> lists anymore but instead find it simpler
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 03:34:35PM +1100, Anand Kumria wrote:
> Converting people to daily-digest mode is something that both Pascal and
> I talked about recently. Considering the amount of acrimony various
> participants have had, seen recently on debian-vote, and the fact that
> some of the publi
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 03:34:35PM +1100, Anand Kumria wrote:
Converting people to daily-digest mode is something that both Pascal and
I talked about recently. Considering the amount of acrimony various
participants have had, seen recently on debian-vote, and the fact that
some of the public (and p
Hi, Jonathan Walther wrote:
> I prefer my fellow Debian brothers to develop rhinocerous hides. :-)
Disregarding your smiley for a moment (I'm not sure what you want say with
it anyway): I disagree.
Rhino hides tend to come with Rhino horns, which people then get in the
habit of using as an all-p
> "Anand" == Anand Kumria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Anand> I, personally, suspect that the unfriendliness of Debian is
Anand> behind a lot of requests for smaller mailing lists seen by
Anand> listmaster these days. A lot of people don't bother to use
Anand> the main mailing l
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