On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > Yep, but there is a difference between the information being available,
> > > and it
> > > being actively feeded to the NSA or whoever. And it is especially
> > > bothering if
> > > this cause undue delay in our normal activities, like aj is saying it
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:11:02PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 04:54:34PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > Sven Luther wrote:
> > > >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on
also sprach Anthony Towns [2005.03.04.2118 +0100]:
> I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for
> complaints of the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the
> new.html page should be more of a solution
... not many people knew about it until recently. And there has not
been
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 04:54:34PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > Sven Luther wrote:
> > >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on
> > >>ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:09:00AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
>
> (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal.
> (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy.
> (3) I wonder what I could do that would help.
(4) I'll ask.
(5) Hmmm, no response. OK, let's see whether anyone
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:09:00AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Well, here's a simple train of thought:
>
> (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal.
> (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy.
> (3) I wonder what I could do that would help.
Ah, well, in how can we
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on
> >>ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even less
> >>transparent and effective than us. But given how these sort
Anthony Towns wrote: [...]
> Well, here's a simple train of thought:
> (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal.
> (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy.
> (3) I wonder what I could do that would help.
I can't see why one would make the jump from 1 to 2 withou
Sven Luther wrote:
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 06:56:44PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
4) furthermore, i believe that, altough it never happened, it could well be
that the BSwhatever agency may also once it reads the notification, reject
the export authorization for a particular package, no ?
No.
Ch
Sven Luther wrote:
It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on
ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even less
transparent and effective than us. But given how these sorts of
But they are less a hindrance to the daily work of maintainers, and can
Matthew Garrett wrote:
(I'm not suggesting that the ftp-masters are doing their job
inadequately here,
See, that's the thing, you _are_. You can tell, because you had to
explicitly refute the idea; it's the same as being able to tell you're
being offensive when you feel the need to say "no offens
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote:
> 3) Some would argue that this impose an additional fee or
> restriction (in the same way as a post-card licence) on our
> distribution as part of debian. (read the debian-legal posts for
> this past year or so, if you doubt).
Nothing in debian-legal has sa
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 06:56:44PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do
Anthony Towns wrote:
> There's no particular reason NEW isn't being processed -- people are
> just busy doing other things; some of which are outside Debian, others
> of which are related to getting the release out, or whatever else.
> That's not, in my opinion, something Debian developers hav
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian
> > > is
> > > reported to the US secret services or whateve
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 11:28:57AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> There's no particular reason NEW isn't being processed -- people are
> just busy doing other things; some of which are outside Debian, others
> of which are related to getting the release out, or whatever else.
> That's not, in my
Op za, 05-03-2005 te 08:48 +0100, schreef Sven Luther:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian
> > > is
> > > reported to the US secret ser
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 11:28:57AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >I'm certainly not suggesting that they be rejected out of hand, and
> >accepting them isn't the correct decision either. Currently, though,
> >it's impossible to tell the difference between "This package is a
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 03:02:34PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> Anthony Towns wrote:
> > I actually think that's a good result: far better to keep track of the
> > problematic packages, than to just REJECT them with a reason like
> > "doesn't seem like a good idea" and have them randomly reup
Matthew Garrett wrote:
Anthony Towns wrote:
I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for complaints of
the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the new.html page should
be more of a solution --
But currently people have no idea what the underlying cause /is/, which
is certai
Anthony Towns wrote:
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
>> Complaints about NEW can roughly be split into three catagories:
>> 1) It takes too long
>> 2) It isn't happening
>
> These are the same issue: it's a queue, packages uploaded now will be
> processed when NEW starts getting processed regularly ag
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So what ? You are one of us, and not a potentially hostile outside agency.
PUBLIC. That means not only to "us", but to hostile things too.
Hostile things like the US Government, or *really* hostile things like
the governments of France and China.
--
T
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:18:37PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >3) My package has been sitting in the queue for ages and other packages
> >have been processed
> >This is a communication problem.
>
> No, this is a policy problem. Communication is easy: hit "M" for manual
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:55:25PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is
> >reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our
> >archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agr
On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 09:02:36AM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 09:00]:
> > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the wo
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yep, but there is a difference between the information being
> available, and it being actively feeded to the NSA or whoever. And
> it is especially bothering if this cause undue delay in our normal
> activities, like aj is saying it is.
Tough. It's *pub
On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 08:48:21AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian
> > > is
> > > reported to the US secr
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 09:00]:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian
> > > is
> > > reported to the US secret services or
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is
> > reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our
> > archive handling servic
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is
> reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our
> archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agree to this being the
> case.
What are you tal
Sven Luther wrote:
I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is
reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our
archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agree to this being the
case.
Everyone subscribed to debian-devel-changes get
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 09:26:39PM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050304 21:20]:
> > Sure, move our archive out of the US, and be gone with the problem.
> except for the developers who live in US, and have to deal with export
> regulations by themselfs then.
So, t
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:18:37PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for complaints of
> the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the new.html page should
>
> I actually think that's a good result: far better to keep track of the
> proble
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050304 21:20]:
> Sure, move our archive out of the US, and be gone with the problem.
except for the developers who live in US, and have to deal with export
regulations by themselfs then.
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE
Matthew Garrett wrote:
Erm, , I guess.
Anthony Towns wrote:
As a concrete example, I don't think
http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW
issue is an example of a communication problem at all.
http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 11:28:16AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >And again to my purely technical question. Is it really necessary for
> >kernel-source-2.6.11 to go through NEW once it is uploaded for example ?
>
> It's not a technical issue it's a legal one -- our approach t
Sven Luther wrote:
You wouldn't accept this kind of behavior from DDs on their package
maintenance,
That's not true. Plenty of DDs are non-responsive for one reason or
other, and it's perfectly acceptable; we even have documented procedures
to deal with that -- NMUs, vacation reports, and QA amon
Anthony Towns wrote:
> As a concrete example, I don't think
>
> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
>
> resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW
> issue is an example of a communication problem at all.
http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html failing to resolv
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 03:29:58AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master
> >email
> >address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to
> >/dev/null,
>
> Sure, of course they are, and so they sh
Sven Luther wrote:
Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master email
address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to /dev/null,
Sure, of course they are, and so they should be. I can fairly readily
find 52k more reasons for people to be irritated with
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 11:33:43PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> >>Steve Langasek wrote:
> >>>As someone who is
> >>>both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what
> >>>resources you (or the f
Sven Luther wrote:
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
As someone who is
both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what
resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's
appropriate to speak for them) would apprecia
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Steve Langasek wrote:
> >As someone who is
> >both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what
> >resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's
> >appropriate to speak for them) would appreciate?
>
Steve Langasek wrote:
As someone who is
both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what
resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's
appropriate to speak for them) would appreciate?
The most valuable thing I can think of would be to not have to have some
flame
Hi Anthony,
On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 07:41:09PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> >I would like to know from the DPL candidates what is their opinion on way
> >the
> >ftp-masters handle the NEW queue,
> I think this is the wrong question. The right question to ask is what
> the ftpmasters think of t
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