Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-10 Thread Adam Heath
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote: > > > Yep, but there is a difference between the information being available, > > > and it > > > being actively feeded to the NSA or whoever. And it is especially > > > bothering if > > > this cause undue delay in our normal activities, like aj is saying it

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-09 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 03:11:02PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 04:54:34PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > > > Sven Luther wrote: > > > >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-09 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Anthony Towns [2005.03.04.2118 +0100]: > I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for > complaints of the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the > new.html page should be more of a solution ... not many people knew about it until recently. And there has not been

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 04:54:34PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: > On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Sven Luther wrote: > > >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on > > >>ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Joel Aelwyn
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:09:00AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > > (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal. > (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy. > (3) I wonder what I could do that would help. (4) I'll ask. (5) Hmmm, no response. OK, let's see whether anyone

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:09:00AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Well, here's a simple train of thought: > > (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal. > (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy. > (3) I wonder what I could do that would help. Ah, well, in how can we

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 06:12:03AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >>It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on > >>ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even less > >>transparent and effective than us. But given how these sort

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread MJ Ray
Anthony Towns wrote: [...] > Well, here's a simple train of thought: > (1) Hrm, ftpmaster aren't doing things as quickly as normal. > (2) Gosh, that probably means they're really busy. > (3) I wonder what I could do that would help. I can't see why one would make the jump from 1 to 2 withou

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 06:56:44PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote: 4) furthermore, i believe that, altough it never happened, it could well be that the BSwhatever agency may also once it reads the notification, reject the export authorization for a particular package, no ? No. Ch

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: It's hard to take this sort of discussion as anything but an attack on ftpmaster, since there are plenty of teams in Debian that're even less transparent and effective than us. But given how these sorts of But they are less a hindrance to the daily work of maintainers, and can

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Anthony Towns
Matthew Garrett wrote: (I'm not suggesting that the ftp-masters are doing their job inadequately here, See, that's the thing, you _are_. You can tell, because you had to explicitly refute the idea; it's the same as being able to tell you're being offensive when you feel the need to say "no offens

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote: > 3) Some would argue that this impose an additional fee or > restriction (in the same way as a post-card licence) on our > distribution as part of debian. (read the debian-legal posts for > this past year or so, if you doubt). Nothing in debian-legal has sa

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-08 Thread Sven Luther
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 06:56:44PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote: > On Sat, 5 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Matthew Garrett
Anthony Towns wrote: > There's no particular reason NEW isn't being processed -- people are > just busy doing other things; some of which are outside Debian, others > of which are related to getting the release out, or whatever else. > That's not, in my opinion, something Debian developers hav

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Adam Heath
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005, Sven Luther wrote: > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian > > > is > > > reported to the US secret services or whateve

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 11:28:57AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > There's no particular reason NEW isn't being processed -- people are > just busy doing other things; some of which are outside Debian, others > of which are related to getting the release out, or whatever else. > That's not, in my

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Wouter Verhelst
Op za, 05-03-2005 te 08:48 +0100, schreef Sven Luther: > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian > > > is > > > reported to the US secret ser

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Sven Luther
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 11:28:57AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Matthew Garrett wrote: > >I'm certainly not suggesting that they be rejected out of hand, and > >accepting them isn't the correct decision either. Currently, though, > >it's impossible to tell the difference between "This package is a

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-07 Thread Sven Luther
On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 03:02:34PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > Anthony Towns wrote: > > I actually think that's a good result: far better to keep track of the > > problematic packages, than to just REJECT them with a reason like > > "doesn't seem like a good idea" and have them randomly reup

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-06 Thread Anthony Towns
Matthew Garrett wrote: Anthony Towns wrote: I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for complaints of the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the new.html page should be more of a solution -- But currently people have no idea what the underlying cause /is/, which is certai

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-06 Thread Matthew Garrett
Anthony Towns wrote: > Matthew Garrett wrote: >> Complaints about NEW can roughly be split into three catagories: >> 1) It takes too long >> 2) It isn't happening > > These are the same issue: it's a queue, packages uploaded now will be > processed when NEW starts getting processed regularly ag

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So what ? You are one of us, and not a potentially hostile outside agency. PUBLIC. That means not only to "us", but to hostile things too. Hostile things like the US Government, or *really* hostile things like the governments of France and China. -- T

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:18:37PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Matthew Garrett wrote: > >3) My package has been sitting in the queue for ages and other packages > >have been processed > >This is a communication problem. > > No, this is a policy problem. Communication is easy: hit "M" for manual

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:55:25PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is > >reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our > >archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agr

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Sven Luther
On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 09:02:36AM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 09:00]: > > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the wo

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yep, but there is a difference between the information being > available, and it being actively feeded to the NSA or whoever. And > it is especially bothering if this cause undue delay in our normal > activities, like aj is saying it is. Tough. It's *pub

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 08:48:21AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian > > > is > > > reported to the US secr

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-05 Thread Andreas Barth
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 09:00]: > On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian > > > is > > > reported to the US secret services or

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:59:16PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is > > reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our > > archive handling servic

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is > reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our > archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agree to this being the > case. What are you tal

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: I have some real trouble with the fact that all the work i do for debian is reported to the US secret services or whatever by the ftp-masters and our archive handling services, and i certainly did *NOT* agree to this being the case. Everyone subscribed to debian-devel-changes get

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 09:26:39PM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050304 21:20]: > > Sure, move our archive out of the US, and be gone with the problem. > except for the developers who live in US, and have to deal with export > regulations by themselfs then. So, t

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:18:37PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > I think the "communication issues" are just a stand in for complaints of > the underlying cause. If they weren't, I think the new.html page should > > I actually think that's a good result: far better to keep track of the > proble

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Andreas Barth
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050304 21:20]: > Sure, move our archive out of the US, and be gone with the problem. except for the developers who live in US, and have to deal with export regulations by themselfs then. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Anthony Towns
Matthew Garrett wrote: Erm, , I guess. Anthony Towns wrote: As a concrete example, I don't think http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW issue is an example of a communication problem at all. http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 11:28:16AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >And again to my purely technical question. Is it really necessary for > >kernel-source-2.6.11 to go through NEW once it is uploaded for example ? > > It's not a technical issue it's a legal one -- our approach t

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: You wouldn't accept this kind of behavior from DDs on their package maintenance, That's not true. Plenty of DDs are non-responsive for one reason or other, and it's perfectly acceptable; we even have documented procedures to deal with that -- NMUs, vacation reports, and QA amon

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Matthew Garrett
Anthony Towns wrote: > As a concrete example, I don't think > > http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html > > resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW > issue is an example of a communication problem at all. http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html failing to resolv

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 03:29:58AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master > >email > >address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to > >/dev/null, > > Sure, of course they are, and so they sh

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master email address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to /dev/null, Sure, of course they are, and so they should be. I can fairly readily find 52k more reasons for people to be irritated with

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-04 Thread Sven Luther
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 11:33:43PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > >On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > >>Steve Langasek wrote: > >>>As someone who is > >>>both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what > >>>resources you (or the f

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-03 Thread Anthony Towns
Sven Luther wrote: On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: Steve Langasek wrote: As someone who is both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's appropriate to speak for them) would apprecia

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-03 Thread Sven Luther
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:27:36AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > Steve Langasek wrote: > >As someone who is > >both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what > >resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's > >appropriate to speak for them) would appreciate? >

Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-03 Thread Anthony Towns
Steve Langasek wrote: As someone who is both an ftpmaster and a DPL candidate, could you also tell us what resources you (or the ftpmasters as a group, if you believe it's appropriate to speak for them) would appreciate? The most valuable thing I can think of would be to not have to have some flame

Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]

2005-03-02 Thread Steve Langasek
Hi Anthony, On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 07:41:09PM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote: > >I would like to know from the DPL candidates what is their opinion on way > >the > >ftp-masters handle the NEW queue, > I think this is the wrong question. The right question to ask is what > the ftpmasters think of t