Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-31 Thread Sven Luther
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 10:30:07AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > [-devel trimmed] > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please reread the discussion on debian-legal about this, where consensus was > > mostly found to support this idea, and also remember that we contacted > > broadcom with this a

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-31 Thread MJ Ray
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:26:56PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > Should the ftpmasters, who have even less legal expertise, > > Judging by some of the nonsense that debian-legal is typically riddled with, It's generally quite easy to spot the

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-31 Thread MJ Ray
[-devel trimmed] Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please reread the discussion on debian-legal about this, where consensus was > mostly found to support this idea, and also remember that we contacted > broadcom with this analysis, who contacted their legal team, and i also mailed > the FSF

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-31 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 12:15:20AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > I'd love to see a legal opinion from the SPI lawyers regarding who would be > liable if Debian did commit copyright infringment (or whatever) and someone > sued. FWIW, there's a few things I'd love to see legal opinions on too, in

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Steve Langasek wrote: > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:26:56PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: >> Actually, letting an overworked team of four with (to my knowledge) zero >> legal expertise settle questions of legal liability is pretty absurd too. > > They are the team responsible for vetting the le

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:26:56PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > >> Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal > >> minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion going on > >> right

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:18:28PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > > > Since the firmware blobs are not derivative works of the kernel, but > > constitute mere agregation in the same binary format, the authors of other > > pieces of GPLed code fo the linux kernel cannot even

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Sven Luther wrote: > Since the firmware blobs are not derivative works of the kernel, but > constitute mere agregation in the same binary format, the authors of other > pieces of GPLed code fo the linux kernel cannot even sue us for > distributing the kernel code with those GPL-violating binary BL

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Steve Langasek wrote: > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > >> Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal >> minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion going on >> right now, because it determines whether Debian will dis

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:16:29PM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: > > > Hello, > > On Wed, 30.08.2006 at 09:27:21 +0200, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 30, Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Debian must decide whether it wants to ship BLOBs with licensing which > >

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Toni Mueller
Hello, On Wed, 30.08.2006 at 09:27:21 +0200, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Aug 30, Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Debian must decide whether it wants to ship BLOBs with licensing which > > technically does not permit redistribution. At least 53 blobs have this >

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Mike Hommey
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 09:00:27AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 07:17:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL > > PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > > > > > > Debian needs

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 09:27:21AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Aug 30, Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Debian must decide whether it wants to ship BLOBs with licensing which > > technically does not permit redistribution. At least 53 blobs have this > > problem. Many of the

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Aug 30, Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Debian must decide whether it wants to ship BLOBs with licensing which > technically does not permit redistribution. At least 53 blobs have this > problem. Many of them are licensed under the GPL, but without source code > provided. Since

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-30 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 07:17:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > > > > Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal > > > minefield. Tha

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-29 Thread Mike Hommey
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 07:17:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > > > Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal > > minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion goin

Re: The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-29 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: > Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal > minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion going on > right now, because it determines whether Debian will distribute these 53 > BLOBs *at a

The bigger issue is badly licensed blobs (was Re: Firmware poll

2006-08-29 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Ron Johnson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Luk Claes wrote: >> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> 6c557439-9c21-4eec-ad6c-e6384fab56a8 >> [ 1 ] Choice 1: Release etch on time >> [ 3 ] Choice 2: Do not ship sourceless firmware in