Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Jochen Theodorou
On 15.06.20 03:05, Anne wrote: Hi all I support (eventually) removing the terms 'blacklist' and 'whitelist', though my primary reason is different to the reasons already stated, and I thought it might be worth sharing why. It's generally recommended that names in programming be descriptive, and

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Konstantin Boudnik
Precisely, MG! This is what these discussions are swaying us into: to forget that we are first and foremost came here to enjoy this great Groovy language which many of us are using day in and day out (thanks for the team that has made this possible!). We aren't just a bunch of marginalized g

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Anne
Hi all I support (eventually) removing the terms 'blacklist' and 'whitelist', though my primary reason is different to the reasons already stated, and I thought it might be worth sharing why. It's generally recommended that names in programming be descriptive, and that cultural references be avoi

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread MG
On 14/06/2020 15:34, Jenn Strater wrote: may make members of marginalized groups (like myself) To me you are another person that likes or is interested in Groovy as a programming language You are welcome, mg

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Konstantin Boudnik
Appreciate the effort Jenn! We all live in the world which is constantly being inconsiderate to someone's feelings and comfort zones. And - from a strictly mathematical standpoint - finding a common subset of terms that won't be offensive for an arbitrary reason to an unknown someone will leave

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Jenn Strater
I was trying to be polite. I meant that seeing some of the offensive things that have been said in this conversation, in particular, may make members of marginalized groups(like myself) feel less comfortable bringing up issues of inclusivity. Just because no one has felt comfortable enough to repor

Re: Blacklist: On the Rationality of Feelings

2020-06-14 Thread MG
Hi Paul, On 14/06/2020 03:37, Paul King wrote: Groovy tries to be as agnostic as it can on many points. Let users choose between static or dynamic, functional or imperative, etc. Given some users would like to avoid using blacklist/whitelist, isn't giving them that option a useful thing? We

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Remko Popma
Cos, Thank you for the clarification. I have a slightly different worldview, but that is okay. :-) We may not be as perfect as we think we are. Our goal is to make our community more inclusive. Jenn, being one of the rare female engineers we have in our larger IT community, may have some interest

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-14 Thread Konstantin Boudnik
Thanks for kind words Remko. But I am not trying to blame myself for anything. I am perfectly aware about my limits as in 'you can lead a horse to the water, but can't force it to drink'. In fact, I know for sure that ASF in general hasn't ever pushed anyone out, not even for brain-dead coding ;)