Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Alex Pilon
> > > > seeing the new subject I feel obligated to leave this link here: > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > > > Yeah, ruby is better than go, for sure in my experience. > > > > Great. Yet another poorly specified or documented language. Just what we > > need. > > That was

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 07:10:02PM -0400, Alex Pilon wrote: > > > seeing the new subject I feel obligated to leave this link here: > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > Yeah, ruby is better than go, for sure in my experience. > > Great. Yet another poorly specified or

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Alex Pilon
> > seeing the new subject I feel obligated to leave this link here: > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > Yeah, ruby is better than go, for sure in my experience. Great. Yet another poorly specified or documented language. Just what we need.

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 09:19:06AM +1100, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 07:35:46PM +0200, Markus Teich wrote: > > Heyho, > > > > seeing the new subject I feel obligated to leave this link here: > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > Yeah, ruby is better than go,

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 10:16:31AM +0200, Leo Gaspard wrote: > The fact remains: rust has had approx. 1/26 times the time hurd, and > 1/25 times the time linux had to develop. Do you think it's fair to > already consider it's an epic fail? Ok, you won the troll. Wait and see. In the mean time

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-03 Thread Leo Gaspard
On 05/03/2016 01:57 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 04:29:11PM -0700, Andrew Gwozdziewycz wrote: >> Given this effort, and the fact that they've gotten pretty damn far >> towards being usable, I'd say you can't *possibly* argue that "they >> all *epic-ly* [sic] fail at the

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 04:29:11PM -0700, Andrew Gwozdziewycz wrote: > Given this effort, and the fact that they've gotten pretty damn far > towards being usable, I'd say you can't *possibly* argue that "they > all *epic-ly* [sic] fail at the kernel step." (emphasis mine). Like Hurd. > Of

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Andrew Gwozdziewycz
On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > > On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 03:47:06PM +0200, Leo Gaspard wrote: > > On 05/02/2016 04:40 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > > > On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Timothy Rice wrote: > > >>> [...] > > > > > >

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 03:47:06PM +0200, Leo Gaspard wrote: > On 05/02/2016 04:40 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > > On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Timothy Rice wrote: > >>> [...] > > > > > > When you want to promote a new language: > > 1 - write a boostrap compiler (for

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Leo Gaspard
On 05/02/2016 04:40 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND wrote: > On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Timothy Rice wrote: >>> [...] > > > When you want to promote a new language: > 1 - write a boostrap compiler (for kernel profile and other profiles) > in the current "system language" (I

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Kamil Cholewiński
On Mon, 02 May 2016, Marc Collin wrote: > Something better than using fancy (aka: complex) languages with > garbage collector, memory safeness, etc. is to formal verify your C > program[0]. There's even a kernel, seL4 that's been formally verified > to not contain certain

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Marc Collin
If you think about suckless as keeping things simple and not wasting computer resources, this little story is relevant -- John von Neumann, when he first heard about FORTRAN in 1954, was unimpressed and asked "why would you want more than machine language?" One of von Neumann's students at

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Kamil Cholewiński
On Mon, 02 May 2016, FRIGN wrote: > Benjamin Franklin said this: > “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they > deserve, either one.” > And this defines what it's all about. > C is all about freedom, and any measure a higher level language

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Timothy Rice
Thanks FRIGN, both your emails have given me a bit to think about. ~ Tim

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread FRIGN
On Mon, 2 May 2016 17:57:15 +1000 Timothy Rice wrote: Hey Timothy, > I'd be more interested to hear about what actually makes C inherently > better than Go. I quite like C: it forces you to think about the machine a > little bit, and it disincentivises large

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread FRIGN
On Mon, 2 May 2016 11:12:08 +1000 Timothy Rice wrote: Hey Timothy, > A more experienced developer replied that in fact Go has comparable speed > to C but does not lead to the same memory management challenges, thus > should usually be preferred. It appears that most

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread Timothy Rice
On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 09:36:56AM +0200, hiro wrote: > the popularity of a language amongst hipsters is quite irrelevant. C > is still the most used language in programs that actually do anything > (i.e. not some "app" written in a markup language). Lol, nice :) However, arguing to tradition

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-02 Thread hiro
the popularity of a language amongst hipsters is quite irrelevant. C is still the most used language in programs that actually do anything (i.e. not some "app" written in a markup language).

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-01 Thread Sylvain BERTRAND
On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Timothy Rice wrote: > > C is definitely not suckless either, especially when it comes > > to UB, but it's probably the language with least suck and > > highest simplicity while giving the most power to the developer. > > Not too long ago I expressed

Re: [dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-01 Thread Pickfire
On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Timothy Rice wrote: C is definitely not suckless either, especially when it comes to UB, but it's probably the language with least suck and highest simplicity while giving the most power to the developer. Not too long ago I expressed support for C as a

[dev] Languages that suck (was "Note On Webkit Versions")

2016-05-01 Thread Timothy Rice
> C is definitely not suckless either, especially when it comes > to UB, but it's probably the language with least suck and > highest simplicity while giving the most power to the developer. Not too long ago I expressed support for C as a way to obtain very fast programs; the context is I work