Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Alexander Klink
While building the new OpenXPKI Live CD ... shameless_plugif you are looking for an (open source) enterprise-grade PKI system, consider OpenXPKI. You can now test development snapshots using our new Morphix-based live CD./shameless_plug ... I realised that you can do something with Firefox 2.0.x

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Alexander Klink
On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 05:00:51PM +0300, Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote: However information stated in certificates signed by CAs isn't usually private and depending on the CA policy even published via directories and other different channels, so I'm not sure if this could be an invasion

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Arshad Noor
Alex, Do you presume that the websites in the domains that you intend to track users will install the self-signed CA certificate that issued the client-certificate to the unsuspecting user? If not, how will the browser know which client certificate to send to the website during client-auth?

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Alexander Klink
[restricted the Cc's to the mozilla lists] Arshad, On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 10:04:53AM -0400, Arshad Noor wrote: Do you presume that the websites in the domains that you intend to track users will install the self-signed CA certificate that issued the client-certificate to the unsuspecting

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Alexander Klink
[Cc's restricted to the mozilla lists] Hi Eddy, On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 07:57:49PM +0300, Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote: Granted, if this is a real CA. But if you use it like in my PoC not for the typical CA scenario, but for user tracking, you could put all kinds of data in the

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Arshad Noor
See below, Alex. Arshad Noor StrongAuth, Inc. - Original Message - From: Alexander Klink [EMAIL PROTECTED] The typical user does not have a client authentication certificate, so after installing one for him, the browser will send that out to anyone who is asking. My understanding of

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)
Arshad Noor wrote: My understanding of the TLS protocol is that the browser only sends the certificates signed by CAs that the server trusts; are you saying that the protocol allows for asking ANY certificate from the browser cert-store, regardless of who signed it? Yes, one can

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Robert Relyea
Arshad Noor wrote: See below, Alex. Arshad Noor StrongAuth, Inc. - Original Message - From: Alexander Klink [EMAIL PROTECTED] The typical user does not have a client authentication certificate, so after installing one for him, the browser will send that out to anyone who is asking.

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Arshad Noor
Thanks for the deeper explanation, Bob. I continue to get a little more educated each day - I am grateful to all for that. :-) Arshad Noor StrongAuth, Inc. - Original Message - From: Robert Relyea [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arshad Noor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: dev-security@lists.mozilla.org,

Re: Firefox 2.0.x: tracking unsuspecting users using TLS client certificates

2007-09-07 Thread Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)
Arshad Noor wrote: They would know the CA that issued the particular client certificate and include it in it's Request/Not require client auth message. Actually funny that I never thought myself about such an option. But a competing CA could harvest the email addresses, which are usually