I found the last question disappointing - it required me to rank five
options as to how well they fit in Fedora, without letting my say how
well I think each of them fit in Fedora. There was no way to say
"Doesn't fit" although I would have preferred they all be marked that
way.
Consider my answ
Kilian Hanich writes:
> So, if we really don't count the password manager file because it can be
> copied easily, one also cannot count the ones from from apps since they
> can also be easily replicated.
I agree. Hence "grudgingly accepted".
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Kilian Hanich via devel writes:
> One could argue that the "password manager file" is the "something you
> have" thing.
No, one cannot. The three factors in security are:
1. Something you know, which means other people do NOT know it. It
exists in your brain and nowhere else.
2. Something
Lennart Poettering writes:
> Well, as you might be aware many distributions these days do more than
> "files dns" for "hosts", and similar for the other databases, and
> hence a built-in default in glibc is great, but most distributions and
> image builders probably want to pick different defaults
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> I'm not entirely sure if you're just doing Friday trolling or if
> you're serious.
Serious. I have many machines and VMs, and every time I do a Fedora
install, I have a list of your choices I have to revert because they
don't work for me. It's tiring.
>> I
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> That built-in would be enough only if it enabled all the modules
> that we need it to support.
It enables the ones that *glibc* needs to run at a minimum. Your case
is different, which is why you modify /etc/nsswitch.conf.
> I tried to figure out what the d
Lennart Poettering writes:
> That said, I would certainly enjoy more if glibc would natively
> fallback to /usr/lib/glibc/nsswitch.conf or something like that if
> /etc/nsswitch.conf does not exist.
glibc has an internal default for nsswitch.conf if one isn't found.
Putting a custom nsswitch.conf
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc,
I will note that I'm opposed to this goal as a goal per-se.
If you want an empty directory, "mkdir /etc2" should work for you.
I fear this will end like the /tmp fiasco where one /tmp became ma
Samantha Bueno writes:
> We've gone ahead and decided not to replace DNF with DNF05 in Fedora
> 39 and, perhaps notably, Fedora 40 as well.
For those of us who upgraded to DNF05 in rawhide to test it, is there a
quick reference for our paths forward? Er, backward? I upgraded at the
wrong time a
Fabio Valentini writes:
> in Fedora 39 - whether the switch still looks doable for this release,
> or whether it should be reverted for F39 and postponed to F40.
I spent most of yesterday repairing a rawhide VM that had a bad upgrade,
resulting in dnf segfaulting and making the machine difficult
Jens-Ulrik Petersen writes:
> I have just now pushed fixes for all ghc*, so can you try to rebuild
> them again in your repo?
All succeeded :-)
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/djdelorie/libffi-3.4.4/builds/
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Jens-Ulrik Petersen writes:
> I have just now pushed fixes for all ghc*, so can you try to rebuild
> them again in your repo?
That's a good question, to which I know not the answer. Fred? Can MPB
be told to retest a specific set of packages? Or do I have to start
from scratch and/or do them ma
Jarek Prokop writes:
> Are the libffi/rebuilt packages available anywhere for us to
> experiment with?
MPB uses COPR, so..
"before" builds:
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/djdelorie/libffi-3.4.4.checker/
"after" builds: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/djdelorie/libffi-3.4.4/
>
Jens-Ulrik Petersen writes:
> According to mpb at least:
>
> mpb?
Mass PreBuilder https://gitlab.com/fedora/packager-tools/mass-prebuild
> The majority of those packages are maintained by me... so I can't say I
> thrilled.
> I thought ghc 9 was supposed to be okay with static trampolines?
MPB
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> Sounds good. Can you post the list of affected packages here?
According to mpb at least:
0ad
Agda
Io-language
Macaulay2
ShellCheck
alex
bench
brainfuck
bustle
cab
cabal-install
cabal-rpm
chromium
cjs
cpphs
darcs
dhall
dhall-json
dl-fedora
It sounds to me like the problem is "how do we best use the available
automated test resources?" so I'll answer accordingly. Ignore me if I
misunderstood ;-)
We currently have a small list of packages that are gated behind openQA,
and insufficient openQA resources to expand this list to all pack
I normally would complain about taking options away from users, but as I
typically use ssh for root *anyway*, I felt this wasn't appropriate
(although I have a friend who never uses ssh keys, always
password-over-ssh).
I would, however, ask that the config file have a commented out option
that re
Peter Hutterer writes:
> xfd
I use this a lot; what is the modern replacement for it?
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Vitaly Zaitsev via devel writes:
> Ofc we can use it, but only when we will get rid of all GNU libraries,
> compiler and utilities. :-)
Please don't start this tired old argument again. "Fedora Linux" is a
name, not an ISO standard, we can call it whatever we want. We respect
that you may have
Daniel P. Berrangé writes:
> Perhaps this is heresy, but we could stop calling our main development
> stream "rawhide", and instead call it "main", then it will be trivially
> aligned with the "main" git branch name :-)
But fedoras aren't made of sheets of main, they're made from sheets of
rawhid
Fabio Valentini writes:
> ImportError: /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol: lstat64, version
> GLIBC_2.33
This looks like something was built against the new glibc, but tried to
run against the old glibc...
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Neal Gompa writes:
> Oh man, that takes me back! I started on DOS with the MS-DOS Editor,
> then went onto the DOS port of Emacs and using DJGPP, then jumped to
> Linux years later...
Now *that* takes me back to the days when I wrote DJGPP ;-)
And for anyone who thinks vi is hard to use, try the
"John M. Harris Jr" writes:
> it is important that issues such as this can be talked about publicly,
I disagree. It has nothing to do with Fedora development[*], and allowing
EITHER side to continue this "discussion" allows either side to badger
and bully the opposition until people comply jus
In about a week I'll be building make 4.3 for rawhide. As part of
this, I'll be cleaning up some old Fedora-specific patches that
shouldn't be needed any more (ha!). In addition, please note any make
4.3-specific changes in its NEWS file:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/make.git/tree/NEWS
Thi
I've taken a look at the new make release, and updating Fedora's make
won't be that tricky (aside from some noted backwards
incompatibilities[1], who knows) but I see no reason to rush it into a
last-minute update this close to branching F32. My current plan is to
introduce it to rawhide just aft
"vvs vvs" writes:
> Ok, now I see that Fedora is just for activists. If I'm not one of
> them then I don't deserve any possibility to use it and should blame
> myself. Thanks for explaining it to me.
I think you're overreacting a bit, but there is some truth in this.
Fedora is created and mainta
John Reiser writes:
> Very similar to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1729382
Ah, thanks.
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Anyone else seeing this? It seems to only happen on physical i686
machines, not vm's, but that's based on only three builds so far.
https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=36329825
BUILDSTDERR: create archive failed: cpio: write failed - Cannot allocate
memory
(this is after t
Pavel Bezina writes:
> Do you know about any package that installs an nsswitch.conf module and
> automatically enables it in /etc/nsswitch.conf? So far I have two
> packages - nss-mdns and systemd.
I don't know about enabling, but it's easy to ask the database what
packages provide NSS modules
Jan Kratochvil writes:
> So why glibc greated an N+1 allocator (by DJ Delorie) instead of just
> importing/using tcmalloc (which is license-compatible with glibc)?
I didn't create an N+1 allocator. We're still using the Doug Lea
allocator from ancient times. My recent work ad
Michal Schorm writes:
> Can someone explain me *real quick* what is the multilib good for? - or
> more precisely, why whould anone run 32-bit software on x86_64 OS?
Among other reasons, 32-bit code can be smaller and faster than 64-bit
code for some applications. When trying to stuff many conta
Hans de Goede writes:
> 1) . . ., no way to get to the menu
I think this steps over a line we should not cross.
There's a huge difference between HIDING grub's functionality, and
essentially DISABLING it. While I'm opposted to hiding the grub menu in
general, as long as there's some obvious wa
Chris Adams writes:
> If I know I want the menu (say I need to boot single-user to fix
> something), how would I do that in this setup?
Ah, that reminds me of the good old days of looking up on the internet
which of the many keys on the keyboard gets me into the BIOS setup
menu...
__
With glibc 2.26 there's a new per-thread cache in malloc, which
improves malloc performance in general, and hopefully, specifically
for the apps which each of you are most concerned about. In the event
that you feel it doesn't help, or if you have other concerns about
malloc performance, there's
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> You still can restore such behaviour pretty easily. Just set the
> kernel.core_pattern sysctl.
Yup, that's what I do. Just adding my two cents on Fedora trying to
help me "be a developer" without doing what I need as a developer.
But I typically uninstall
Jan Kurik writes:
> Note that coredumpctl is intended as a developer tool,
As a developer, I remove abrt and anything else that redirects cores
away from my development area. It's really hard to debug a core dump if
you can't find the core file.
Just sayin'
> U.S. rural areas? :-D
I'm pretty rural, and even I have good internet. Maybe we need to
redefine "rural" to be independent of physicality :-)
> Based on feedback from Ambassadors, DVD images may still be useful
> giveaways in regions with less access to bandwidth. I'm not sure what
> to do ab
Nico Kadel-Garcia writes:
> It's certainly a direct violation of the intent of the GPL licensed
> tools that form so much of the base of Fedora's build environment.
The GPL3 no longer requires us to provide tools used to compile such
objects, as long as such tools are general-purpose and used unm
> How about
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora&version=rawhide&component=ltrace
Done, BZ 1347879
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Not sure where to send this, but...
From 1280b78688baaf9a576af5a0a0a658fd0f0ea7e4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: DJ Delorie
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:27:55 -0400
Subject: Fix FTBFS due to gcc and glibc updates
- comment out tautological asserts that gcc 6 complains about
- replace readdir_r
Lennart Poettering writes:
> Again, this isn't just work-arounds around broken programs. It's a
> security thing. It's privileged code (logind, PID 1) that enforces a
> clear life-cycle on unprivileged programs.
You're making three invalid assumptions here:
1. You're assuming that such programs
Lennart Poettering writes:
> Again, as mentioned before: key here is that permitting user processes
> to stick around after all sessions of the user ended needs to be a
> privilieged concept. It should not be allowed for user code to stick
> around after logout, unless this is explicitly permitte
Lennart Poettering writes:
> Sorry, but systemd is pretty exactly this: a process babysitter.
It's becoming a user nanny instead. I wish it would stop trying to
enforce its "my way or the highway" approach to system rules. I've been
playing whack-a-mole trying to keep up with all the tweaks I
Tomasz Torcz writes:
> Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
-1
Having such a small amount of information spread all over the filesystem
only makes things harder to manage. Keeping it in one place means the
whole "where am I getting stuff" question can be answer
I'm in, at least for chatting and such. I've got a Rostock MAX V1 delta
with a custom Repetier 0.92 firmware and a few hardware mods, and use
OpenSCAD, slic3r (modified), and pronterface to drive it.
http://www.delorie.com/photos/3d_prints/
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htt
Igor Gnatenko writes:
> Why do you want to build such packages for EOLed distro?
Because he's a nicy guy and it's an important patch?
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> Hey D.J.!
And not to point you out, but I should have clarified this... my first
name really is DJ - it's not Dj or D.J. or DeeJay or any other
variation (although my account names are always lower case dj). Yes,
I have legal proof of this, and no, I won't share it ;-)
DJ
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so do electronics, woodworking, and metalworking as
hobbies, so I tend to show up in lots of forums...
In my new role at Red Hat I'll be focusing more on glibc work, so
expect to see me poking my nose around there too now :-)
DJ Delorie
work: d...@redhat.com
personal: d...@delorie.com
fedoraprojec
> If the package yumdb entry (now dnfdb) says it was installed as a
> dependency
This is the part I assumed was there.
Is there a separate dnf command to list all installed-as-dependencies
that nothing depends on any more?
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> > 1) Some magic command to run after remove to remove the now unneeded
> > cruft.
>
> The vast majority of users don't care about saving that $0.0001 of disk
> space, so never need or want to run this and don't.
One would hope (assume?) that there's something to keep dnf from
thinking I no lo
Stephen John Smoogen writes:
> I would talk with the mirrors in your area and find out why they don't
> mirror it.
Do mirror sites have the option to not include sources? [*]
If so, does letting them have this choice have GPL implications? I
mean, if they're distributing binaries without makin
> Why not? The user surely knows better what a good password is than the
> software does. If the user picks a crappy password, there's probably a good
> reason.
You have an alarmingly naive understanding of our user base...
(not that *I* want to give up control of my passwords, but I'm not an
> > So if we truly want to address this feature, we should also disallow
> > non-root user password based ssh logins.
>
> Do I get this right? You want to disallow any remote logins (which
> nowadays means using ssh)?
No, he means that ssh connections should require a pre-shared key. My
systems
> and developers deserve a better environment.
No, developers deserve the environment they ask for, not what someone
else thinks is "better".
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> The best analogy would probably be a condom with a whopping 129024
> holes in it.
That's a horrible analogy, and totally inappropriate for this mailing
list. Could we please keep this civil and reasonable?
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> So the target audience has shifted from developers to developers who
> don't understand ports, don't like user prompts and are behind
> enterprise firewalls.
Certainly not. I've never assumed I was an "average user". There are
many different reasons why people might want a more open firewall
> > I, for one, am happy to welcome our new more-reasonable-less-paranoid
> > overlords. I've been disabling my firewall for ages, as my machines
> > are behind an enterprise firewall anyway
>
> that don't apply for a notebook, especially not if the enduser is=20
> connected to a public WLAN and
> Next time, don't be 6 month late if you're going to be flippant.
I, for one, am happy to welcome our new more-reasonable-less-paranoid
overlords. I've been disabling my firewall for ages, as my machines
are behind an enterprise firewall anyway.
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> Not every user understands the connection between "website does not
> work" -> "firewall configuration"
True, which means that we have to use words that they *do* understand.
For extra coolness, a per-user firewall and some way of popping up a
query dialog when they violate a firewall rule. "
> Ugh .. sorry but that's the worst suggestion so far. No image the user
> goes to http://addons.mozilla.org/ to install addons ... it won't
> work. (just one random example but you get the idea).
I imagine the user would change the start page to about:blank, then
open the firewall, then everythi
> That's also a questionable "feature". Such a text box should not send
> anything before you confirm it.
Perhaps as part of the firewall installation step, the user could be
given a list of sites that their PC may "call home" to - including
official repos - and let them opt-in or opt-out accord
> For the journal you always keep all log history in it's original
> state
On low-bandwidth systems, like laptops or diskless nodes, it's a
performance hit to generate the log entry in the first place. It's
really important to be able to configure the system to *generate* a
minimal amount of com
> that question makes no sense at all and it's the wrong mailing-list
The question made sense to me, and where else would one discuss
development besides a devel@ list?
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> The coding in assembly is necessary currently?
Yes, but only for limited cases where a higher level language is
inappropriate or insufficient.
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> If I saw systemd-filesystem installed, then I would think that
> something needs to be placed into the systemd folder structure,
Perhaps the bug is this: that you need to install a whole other RPM
just to make a directory exist so you can put a file in it.
Why can't the RPM providing the file
> What's the rationale here? I mean, we have so many dependencies, if
> you want to minimize them, you have a lng way to go...
When I bootstrapped Fedora for ARM way back when, I had to deal with
these dependencies. A lot. Finding a minimal set of RPMs to
cross-compile to get a bootable cor
> Welcome to the 21st century!
Do we have different eyes and brains than we did last century?
Because otherwise, excessively wide paragraphs are just as hard to
read now as they were then.
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> If you have any other suggestions other than keeping the name, we
> will be open to consider them.
My suggestion is to keep the name, but as you're not open to that
option, there's no point in me bothering, is there?
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> Actually it is. The "pretty much" part is exactly the reason why to
> change the name. If we didn't, a ton of users who are not reading
> this conversation would start filing regression bugs. If we set
> their expectations right, warning them that yum is no more, they are
> far less likely to do
> Nothing will change for you, the yum command will still exist for a
> few more Fedora releases,
Which only postpones the problem.
> just as the `service` command that was superseded by systemctl like
> 5 releases of Fedora ago exists.
Which is currently annoying me, for the same reason.
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Forcing the users to type a different command name to get exactly the
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> A party who is molesting me with ads and tries to spy on me, hardly
> is my friend.
Those are strong words, and based mostly on here-say. Even the Fedora
installer "molests you with ads" for various non-default packages.
Should we ban the installer? Of course not.
There are specific issues t
> Why do we care about using the Firefox trademark? We should just
> rename the package. Debian do that and it hasn't hurt them.
Debian has different core values than Fedora does. The relevent
Fedora value is this one:
Friends
We believe success comes from a strong community, made of peo
> But better yet, mind sharing which toys you have so we can update the
> black/greylists as appropriate?
I make them myself using FTDI chips, usually, and they talk plain
RS-232 using terminal emulators and such:
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/
I also get a lot of eval boards with usb-seri
Can you wildcard the greylist so that modemmanager *never* runs? I
haven't used a modem in decades but MM keeps mucking with all my
serial-connected toys.
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> That said, please don't top-post: [1]
Also, please trim irrelevant material [1]
> [1]
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#If_You_Are_Replying_to_a_Message
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> Oh no! Sorry about that. I just tried it too but I couldn't
> duplicate the error.
It worked this time, must have been new-account-mess.
> > > you can opt out of all badge-stuff in one click ("Deactivate
> > > Account").
> >=20
> > Does this deactivate your FAS account, or just the badges?
>
> FWIW, if you log in to https://badges.fedoraproject.org/ and visit
> your profile,
I got "Internal Server Error" when I tried this... and now I'm on the
home page, when what I really wanted was to make sure I had nothing to
do with it :-P
> you can opt out of all badge-stuff in one click ("De
> If your package reports disk space usage to users, and bases this on
> filesystem free space, please consider whether it might need to take
> LVM thin provisioning into account.
Perhaps you could include a small code snippet explaining *how* to do
this? Is there an lvm_thin_statfs() we can use
> it's not going to be shoved down your throat.
I've found this to be untrue in Fedora.
> > At the very least, this feature should be disabled if the
> > SSD is the boot/root drive. When SSDs fail, they fail
> > completely, and it's irresponsible to cause early failure
> > on a drive that's cri
> And the outputs of these files are the exact same text streams you are
> used to. However, enhanced with a lot of niceties that make them more
> user friendly. For example, you get colors based on the log level, or
> there's a line drawn between reboots. You get the time zone corrected,
> and yo
> But these core parts should work for 100 % users. In all cases, which
> are in scenarios you can imagine. And in 90 % of scenarios you can not
> imagine. Or in scenarios, which are anecdotal for you.
+1 - anything which reduces the tools we have to repair systems or
investigate security
I think this is a bad idea, at least for my setup. I really don't
want my small expensive boot SSD being beaten to death trying to cache
a multi-terabyte array, especially since I have plenty of RAM that
already serves that purpose (the machine rarely reboots).
At the very least, this feature sh
I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone
to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored.
If there is no other way to send mail to local users, we should have a
local MTA configured for such.
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> Also, I'm running the script now, I'll post results when it
> finishes, let's not ALL hit the koji database at the same time ;-)
Results here:
http://www.delorie.com/arm/f19-times.html
includes the raw time data from koji
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> i will look at throwing together a script to give us some comparisons
> between the build times on the different arches.
> I've already done this, last time it came up...
> http://www.delorie.com/arm/koji-compare-build-times.tar.gz
Also, I'm running the script now, I'll post results when it fi
> > http://www.delorie.com/arm/koji-compare-build-times.tar.gz
>
> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
> 2013-07-12 08:53:13 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
"wget" is blocked unless you're clueful enough to use the -U flag.
Consider it a spot check for "smart enough to not recursively do
> i will look at throwing together a script to give us some comparisons
> between the build times on the different arches.
I've already done this, last time it came up...
http://www.delorie.com/arm/koji-compare-build-times.tar.gz
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> Stack protector is not a new requirement in Fedora. It's been part of
> the distribution for years.
xterm has been part of the distribution for years also, but it's not a
release requirement.
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> So what you're saying is that you negotiate with terrorists? :-p
"Anyone else want to negotiate?"
(sorry, couldn't resist ;)
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If at 9:50am on release morning, aliens threatened to blow up the
world if we shipped, we'd certainly do something about it.
But it would be insane to expect us to *document* that we'd do
something about it.
IMHO it's perfectly reasonable for documented policy to simply say
"bugs after this poin
> ## Use $MOZ_TMPDIR if set. Otherwise use /var/tmp instead of /tmp
> ## because of 1GB /tmp limit in Fedora 18 and later.
>
> It is insane to hardcode /var/tmp.
Considering the comment, they probably think it's insane to put /tmp
in RAM, and since web browsers are often used to download huge
I'm WAY out on the bell curve...
I have two PCs. One of them, the one I sit in front of, has four
monitors (on one Radeon HD card), video capture and playback, digital
and analog audio (digital goes to a surround system receiver, analog
to gaming headphones), an SSD plus a dual-3Tb raid1 all in
> We nowadays live in times where BIOS POST takes 500ms,
HA! I wish mine was that fast. With all the different BIOS chips
doing thier own thing for all the add-on cards and peripherals I have,
it takes about 45 seconds just to get to GRUB at all.
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(subject changed, please strip the [was...] when replying)
> On 13/02/13 10:15 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> > (well, more like crap, since I still haven't figured out how to
> > get pulseaudio to use my digital audio outputs).
>
> Really? It's not that hard. It'
> Well, it looks like you aren't running ANY desktop environment,
fvwm2, emacs, firefox, xterm. Plus a few other things as needed.
This is for two computers running four monitors (one computer is the
local one with the monitors, the other is strictly ssh and remote X,
each computer has its own d
> You have other serious system issues not affiliated with Audacious if
> this is the case.
If "I don't run gnome" is considered "other serious system issues", I
suppose so.
Restarting didn't help, I still had the wrong cursor in emacs and
firefox, but only the emacs and firefox run remotely bac
> and change my Firefox and emacs cursors.
And now I have to restart my entire session to reset my gtk themes,
because of one rogue app. Thanks.
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> But, e.g. if openssl is updated for security issues, all dependent
> services need to be restarted. If not, you're still e.g. vulnerable.
> That can't be your wish.
Ah, but if sshd is restarted in the middle of the update, and you
ssh'd into the machine to do the update, it kills the install ha
> Have you tried using Audacious ?
Just did. No thanks. /me uninstalls those five RPMs...
> You can set it to classic mode, at which point it user experience is
> identical to xmms.
No, it's not. It's close enough to fool someone who doesn't use xmms
regularly, but it's different enough to r
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