latch onto the one part you assume will be there that
is the most unreasonable, and use that as a tool to bash the entire
concept of the proposal (which hasn't been written yet). I'm sure there
is a Latin phrase for this, I just don't know it.
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.)
There is only one F13 key, so the sig doesn't change when it moves from
updates-testing to the branched repo.
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, and should get a couple pairs of eyes/systems on them to double
check.
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. This is the kind
of operating system I wish to produce, and I wish to consume. So again,
if you want something different, perhaps /you/ are using the wrong
operating system.
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hand off vs chopping their hand
off. Makes chopping their hand off look like the best option, only if
you ignore the key to the handcuffs sitting on the counter.
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On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 02:37 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Jesse Keating wrote:
That's a fair point, but there are significantly fewer people around to
fix critical issues should they arise on a weekend, and after working 5
weekdays, some of us like taking the weekend off.
Well, I'm around
cleaned out for some
reason). How much old stuff was in the repo was mostly irrelevant for the
time a push took.
Extras had significantly fewer packages, no multilib, no deltarpms, no
update metadata, fewer arches, and was ran on different hardware.
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updates, mashing that release will take a long time, regardless of how
many new updates are going in. This is particularly bad of say
11-updates or 12-updates, but -testing generally goes much faster as
there are less things in there (if bodhi obsoletes are doing the right
thing).
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On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 02:11 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
Ok... removing deprecated uses is a questionable at best update, but
here is the kicker. The perl in F11 is perl-5.10.0-82.fc11. So these
functions aren't actually deprecated
of FESCo are trying to come up with ways to fix that. A lot of the
argument here seems to be disagreement about what Fedora Should Be,
which is precisely an issue the Fedora board has been struggling with.
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in with Fedora (sorry :).
- Orion
Ubuntu is not the first to pick up technology in their releases either.
They generally wait for Fedora to ship with it first and work out all
the kinks, then they snap it run with it. So I really don't buy the
but then we'd be Ubuntu argument, at all.
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daily, and in the case of 13, often twice a day. How much
quicker do you want it? That's already as good, and better than how
fast rawhide pushes.
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going to be pretty difficult to do with the way our push and sync
scripts work.
At most an update that is going from testing to stable should disappear
for only a few hours, that would be between the updates-testing push of
the day an the subsequent branched compose each night.
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the two sets
of updates there?
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in a bodhi comment without giving positive or
negative karma. Seems we already have what you want to replace it with.
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pushed directly to stable
and broke a significant number of systems because of a scenario the
maintainer didn't imagine or test.
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, and the maintainer would have no
problem spending a little effort to find people to do this testing to
ensure his or her update could go to stable ASAP.
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people.
And if an update gets sufficient karma before a push to -testing, then
it's certainly reasonable to push that directly to stable. Your fear
mongering is clouding your judgment.
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.
The conclusion here is that it's OK for Fedora to be broken and unstable
in it's releases. I call bullshit. It is very much not OK for this to
happen.
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On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 16:20 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Jesse Keating wrote:
On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 14:55 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
The possibility to publish hot-fixes is most important.
+1. Not being able to push those out quickly would really suck.
What sucks more is recent hot
such a proposal would work, rather than letting every
maintainer try to imagine it and come to their own conclusions, which
may be wildly off base.
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about those times it
doesn't.
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-testing.
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On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 11:42 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Jesse Keating (jkeat...@redhat.com) said:
On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 16:29 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Am I missing something? Do people think this would be better, or
worse?
I muffed up fedora-release on rawhide, but here
of treating updates-testing users as a black box
that you may or may not get any output from, we should have a more
direct relationship. Maybe something in the Fedora Engineering Services
initiative could be to spend some time smoke testing updates-testing
stuff.
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rawhide to branched. Once
we've branched, the use could just do: yum --disablerepo=rawhide
--enablerepo=fedora update and get moved over to the branched release.
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On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 11:16 -0600, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
On 2/26/2010 11:07, Jesse Keating wrote:
It'll require some enhancements to how bodhi is used for people
consuming testing updates, and it may require a more active role on part
of the maintainer to seek out somebody to at least
On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 18:51 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
Fedora Legacy, aka the barrel burst. More mandatory stuff, not enough
free resources = failure.
Legacy took it way too far, with much fewer resources, and a complete
lack of tools.
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to test packages in an automated fashion.
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On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 15:33 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Jesse Keating (jkeat...@redhat.com) said:
On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 12:18 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Mainly, it removes the repository definitions in rawhide that don't make
sense - the release, updates, updates-testing, etc
out that breaks we get a
nice black eye in the community.
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speaking, authoritatively, about what Fedora is. As of yet, I
haven't seen anything from our leadership that would agree with your
statements.
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does not require fedora-release-rawhide
fedora and updates repos enabled, all others disabled.
With this scenario, I do believe we'll have the functionality we want.
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On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 22:06 -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
* short (1-3 words)
* a call to action
* positive
So, Houston, we have a problem. is not acceptable?
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.
F13 updates testing are candidates for being stable. They are published
to updates/testing/13 and are accessible through the updates-testing
repo on branched installs. We peer review them in updates-testing
before throwing them over the wall at 13.
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On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 16:27 +, Paul wrote:
My cert is fine as I can commit to cvs.
Your cert isn't used with CVS, your ssh key is. Your cert may be
expired, and you'll need to get a new one.
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at 18:58:00 UTC.
Action Items
* Oxf13 will get another SOP ready for poelcat this coming week
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it likely hasn't been operated on.
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overwrites. And if the requester is in a
different timezone then the ticket assignee, it surely will take several
days.
New tickets for each override, make tag-request helps here.
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place. There is an updated
fedora-release that will be published into the branched dir that testers
who want to stick with F13 can install. Those who start with Alpha will
stay on Fedora 13.
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into the
group.
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to tag them all at once
into 'dist-f13-updates-candidate'.
Yes, we can do a custom tag that self updates for update sets like this.
It just takes some coordination.
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that enable this repo by default.
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be
working on a mock update today.
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afterwards, a
feature with a tight schedule like Xfce 4.8 is lost. That's just what I
said.
Of course you'll need to do things in a way that makes sense for your
schedule. It's encouraged that things hit rawhide first, but not
mandatory.
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in the wiki isn't updated for how things work
with no frozen rawhide, but we're working on it. If you find more
places that need updating, please add them to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_frozen_rawhide_announce_plan thanks!
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, but that was a negative impact we were willing
to take. As I said in other mails, if you're seeing a long lag in tag
requests, we can try to grow the list of folks with tag rights to cover
other time zones. Use of koji wait-repo can help here, and nearly
replicate chain-build.
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On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 16:45 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
As part of no frozen rawhide, we'll have a new tree on the mirrors,
pub/fedora/linux/development/13 That's where we'll be putting things
that are tagged for the release after they get through testing. We
don't yet have a clever name
they not be made. That in theory will keep the 13
tree more free of frivolous changes.
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. I'll announce this page to devel-announce during
the CVS outage to let maintainers know how to function once the outage
is over.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Branch_Freeze_Policy
Thanks!
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On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 20:14 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
There will be a CVS outage starting at 2010-02-17 00:00 UTC, which will
last approximately 3 hours.
This outage is starting now.
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On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 20:14 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
There will be a CVS outage starting at 2010-02-17 00:00 UTC, which will
last approximately 3 hours.
To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto
or run:
date -d '2010-02-17
. It'll be a fun day! Hop by #fedora-devel if you've
got questions and somebody will try to help you.
Welcome to the world of No Frozen Rawhide!!!
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)?
There will be a Rawhide Report and a Branched Report. Rawhide will be
F-14 now, Branched is F-13. There will also be Fedora 13 Updates
Testing announcements over on the test list.
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We've moved the time / day of the release engineering meeting to
Wednesdays at 2100 UTC. I've updated the meeting page accordingly. See
ya there!
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On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 08:47 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
We've moved the time / day of the release engineering meeting to
Wednesdays at 2100 UTC. I've updated the meeting page accordingly. See
ya there!
Whoops, we didn't have all the feedback. We've instead moved it to 1800
UTC on Friday
Services:
Everything else.
Reason for Outage:
The CVS server will not accept connections so that we can mass-branch for
Fedora 13.
Contact Information:
Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to track
the status of this outage.
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be considered open for Fedora 14 development items.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_frozen_rawhide_announce_plan has some
info about the upcoming change and base information we'll use when
editing the other wiki pages.
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this is less of a name for a tree, and more of a name for at
tree /state/. The tree is Fedora 13, the /state/ would be term.
Think of every place we used the term Pending during our FAD on
Friday.
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dir
Right, this is the Debian naming. The problem is that we have testing
for releases too, and that gets a tag confusing if you just talk about
testing.
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On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 09:25 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
staging - devel release for main dir
We use the term staging when we have are putting things on the master
mirror for our other mirrors to pick up (:
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, post-Alpha) would be a problem for people.
If it is, we can push it off until after F13 ships.
Bill
I'm fine with doing it whenever.
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/development/13 and be included in the Alpha.
We're still working on the documentation for all of this.
More announcements to come!
¹) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_Frozen_Rawhide_Proposal
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Author: jkeating
Update of /cvs/pkgs/rpms/perl-MooseX-Traits-Attribute-CascadeClear/devel
In directory cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv7763
Added Files:
dead.package
Removed Files:
Makefile import.log
perl-MooseX-Traits-Attribute-CascadeClear.spec sources
Log
these changes and setting expectations
with our developers and users.
I will be updating
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_Frozen_Rawhide_Implementation later
today with our current progress and plans.
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On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 11:30 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:07:56 -0800,
Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote:
Even though we've been talking about No Frozen Rawhide for quite a
while, this will indeed surprise some people, so we will be trying to be
extra
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 17:03 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
It's that time of the release cycle again, to purge the orphans before
we get to feature freeze. Any unblocked orphans will be purged by the
feature freeze. A list of unblocked orphans and the broken deps they
would cause is at the end
? Those are just vague enough to be practically meaningless in
this context.
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to avoid it without making another part of the
spec
harder for us.
So long as it doesn't disrupt what is viewed as the summary from the
srpm stored in Koji, I think you'll be fine.
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On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:25 -0600, inode0 wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 12:54 -0600, inode0 wrote:
I believe that what fundamentally makes the Fedora Project a great
place to be is that it is an open community where
the project go.
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time we're talking about is from mash,
which is heavily disk bound. In the full mash+pungi compose, mash takes
on the order of 6 hours, pungi takes on the order of 10 minutes. These
composes don't even hit the code path you're complaining about.
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and are left to discover things on a package by package
basis creating conflict as they go.
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On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 14:16 -0600, Adam Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 13:15 -0600, Adam Miller wrote:
Your example doesn't work, Xubuntu is still bound to the package set
in the Ubuntu repositories in the same
. We cannot say
the same.
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control
over how their system works?
But you are right, not only are we picking a target audience, but we're
also picking a route to that target audience.
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distribution still includes KDE on it, and you can
still click KDE to install it. What functionality has been lost here?
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* Oxf13 to work on documenting Sign packages for Alpha task
* Oxf13 will test multiple concurrent composes to compare completion
time
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for the rawhide
tree. Rawhide is just a repo of packages. When we branch for Alpha
we'll publish the release to be in it's own tree path with images
nightly. Rawhide will move on to F14 stuff.
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On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 15:13 -0800, John Reiser wrote:
The last entry on
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/date.html
is for 09 January 2010, which is almost three weeks ago.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-January/date.html
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On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 11:14 +0100, Till Maas wrote:
Nevertheless, what is the recommended procedure to claim the other
branches? Is it a ticket to FESCo trac or a CVS Admin procedure
request?
Honestly that's a good question. I'd start with a FESCo ticket and see
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publish as last known good.
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what went wrong.
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On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:27 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
[and it ends here]
The report got truncated yet again. :-(
Missed the fact that it was getting truncated. Looking into it.
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://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/browser/scripts/find-unblocked-orphans.py
There you can also report bugs and RFEs.
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Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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(Oxf13, 18:34:28)
* Rawhide composes have been broken since Friday, Oxf13 to look into
it (Oxf13, 18:38:12)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Important_Release_Milestones
(poelcat, 18:40:08)
Meeting ended at 18:51:34 UTC.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca
either of those goes wrong, probably
easiest to do the koji cert one. If there was some way to take the list
of accounts in pkgdb, and compare them to the active valid certs, and
any discrepancies where the account owns packages, we can tag those for
needing attention.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 15:08 -0500, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:55:13AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 20:44 +0100, Till Maas wrote:
Imho the only real problem from your list is, if a package is
unmaintained, because if it is maintained
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 13:39 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
It might have been missed in the passing but:
We have to reset our bugzilla password frequently
We have to renew our Koji cert once a year
We should be able to detect when either of those goes wrong, probably
easiest to do the koji
.
If a volunteer wishes to instigate a non-responsive process on all the
maintainers, that is a separate matter which can happen concurrently to
the current actions.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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it prior to the freeze.
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Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
signature.asc
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of programs written with both stacks.
Alternatives is system wide, but it can be per application. So you can
decide which apps use python3 and which use 2.6.
if you want to go further you can make it per-user with environment
modules.
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Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca
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