I'd like to remove:
ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
very small minority of Fedora users.
Comments?
Karel
--
Karel Zak
http://karelzak.blogspot.com
--
devel mailing list
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On Monday, August 29, 2011, 7:54:10 AM, Karel Zak wrote:
> I'd like to remove:
> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> very small minority of Fedora users.
> Comments?
Why does it matter to you?
> On Monday, August 29, 2011, 7:54:10 AM, Karel Zak wrote:
>> I'd like to remove:
>> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>
>> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
>> very small minority of Fedora users.
>> Comments?
>
> Why does it matter
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 07:25:18 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
>
> > On Monday, August 29, 2011, 7:54:10 AM, Karel Zak wrote:
> >> I'd like to remove:
> >> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
> >
> >> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> >> very small
On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
>
> I'd like to remove:
>
> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>
> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> very small minority of Fedora users.
>
> Comments?
Please do. This isn't really something
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0300, KL (Kalev) wrote:
> On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to remove:
> >
> > ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
> >
> > command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> > very small minority of
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0300, KL (Kalev) wrote:
>
>> On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
>> >
>> > I'd like to remove:
>> >
>> > ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>> >
>> > command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
>> > very small mi
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:32:01 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0300, KL (Kalev) wrote:
> >
> >> On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'd like to remove:
> >> >
> >> > ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
> >> >
> >> > command from r
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:32:01 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0300, KL (Kalev) wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd like to remove:
>> >> >
>> >> > ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>> >> >
>> >> > c
On 08/29/2011 05:24 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> I'd like to remove:
>
> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>
> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> very small minority of Fedora users.
>
> Comments?
IIRC, you are upstream for this and could do
> On 08/29/2011 05:24 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
>> I'd like to remove:
>>
>> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>>
>> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
>> very small minority of Fedora users.
>>
>> Comments?
>
> IIRC, you are upstream for thi
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Otherwise, make
> ddate a sub package and don't install it by default. Solved?
As an upstream the willingness of distributions to strip out commands
which I wanted to provide and don't offer a build option to disable
via sub-packaging wi
Once upon a time, Jon Ciesla said:
> > On 08/29/2011 05:24 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> > IIRC, you are upstream for this and could do this change upstream and
> > then, there wouldn't be a debate about this here. Otherwise, make
> > ddate a sub package and don't install it by default. Solved?
> >
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rahul Sundaram
> wrote:
>>Â Otherwise, Â make
>> ddate a sub package and don't install it by default. Â Solved?
>
> As an upstream the willingness of distributions to strip out commands
> which I wanted to provide and don't offer a build option to disable
> via
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 08:47:40AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:
> That may be (both are human constructs, it's like say "hey, that's made up
> word!", but no, I don't. My point is simply that while it is extremely
> silly code, it is in fact code provided by upstream. It's still
> maintained, is of a
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:47:40 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
> >> The Julian and Gregorian calendars are also of religious origin.
> >
> > Apples and oranges.
> >
> > Do you find anything like in the "SEE ALSO" section of "man ddate" also
> > in "man date"?
> That may be (both are human constructs, it's l
On 08/29/2011 05:00 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 08:47:40AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>> That may be (both are human constructs, it's like say "hey, that's made up
>> word!", but no, I don't. My point is simply that while it is extremely
>> silly code, it is in fact code provided
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 08:47:40AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>> That may be (both are human constructs, it's like say "hey, that's made
>> up
>> word!", but no, I don't. My point is simply that while it is extremely
>> silly code, it is in fact code provided by upstream. It's still
>> maintaine
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:47:40 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
>
>> >> The Julian and Gregorian calendars are also of religious origin.
>> >
>> > Apples and oranges.
>> >
>> > Do you find anything like in the "SEE ALSO" section of "man ddate"
>> also
>> > in "man date"?
>
>> That may be (both are human con
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:27:40 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
> I'm not suggesting ddate is mission-critical, I just want reasons for it's
> removal or re-packaging to be well thought-out, not simply "gosh, I don't
> sue that, so. . .". Otherwise we'll start dropping games.
Sure (and not limited to games,
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:27:40 -0500, JC (Jon) wrote:
>
>> I'm not suggesting ddate is mission-critical, I just want reasons for
>> it's
>> removal or re-packaging to be well thought-out, not simply "gosh, I
>> don't
>> sue that, so. . .". Otherwise we'll start dropping games.
>
> Sure (and not l
On 08/29/2011 07:46 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> Otherwise, make
>> ddate a sub package and don't install it by default. Solved?
> As an upstream the willingness of distributions to strip out commands
> which I wanted to provide and don'
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 08:32:01AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0300, KL (Kalev) wrote:
> >
> >> On 08/29/2011 02:54 PM, Karel Zak wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'd like to remove:
> >> >
> >> > ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
> >> >
> >> > command
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Karel Zak wrote:
> I'd like to remove:
>
> ddate - converts Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
>
> command from rawhide (F17). IMHO this crazy command is used by very
> very small minority of Fedora users.
>
> Comments?
That would make me very sad. Instead
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> OTOH including tiny programs that remind people that real religious
> belief is nonsense has to be a good thing.
On the contrary, biting one's tongue instead of offering off-topic
gratuitous insults to fellow Fedorans has to b a good t
Yes, it was a joke and off-topic for this list. (Not on my blog though ..)
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines. Boot with a
live CD or over the network (PXE) and turn machines into Xen gu
2011-08-31 16:32 keltezéssel, Jerry James írta:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Richard W.M. Jones
> wrote:
>> OTOH including tiny programs that remind people that real religious
>> belief is nonsense has to be a good thing.
> On the contrary, biting one's tongue instead of offering off-topic
Chris Adams wrote:
> Why does util-linux have two floppy disk formatters (/usr/bin/floppy and
> /usr/sbin/fdformat)?
Why does it have any floppy tools any more? The kernel maintainers don't
support the floppy module and the module hasn't been auto-loaded for
several releases.
--
devel mailing l
> Chris Adams wrote:
>> Why does util-linux have two floppy disk formatters (/usr/bin/floppy and
>> /usr/sbin/fdformat)?
>
> Why does it have any floppy tools any more? The kernel maintainers don't
> support the floppy module and the module hasn't been auto-loaded for
> several releases.
> --
> de
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 09:44:33AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:
> Because there are still people with floppy drives?
+1
It's ridiculous to think that older HW doesn't exist because systems
with that HW are not sold anymore (I don't even know id the latter
is true at all -- some special purpose syste
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 09:37:37AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Chris Adams wrote:
> > Why does util-linux have two floppy disk formatters (/usr/bin/floppy and
> > /usr/sbin/fdformat)?
>
> Why does it have any floppy tools any more?
because we still support floppy devices?
> The kernel m
Karel Zak wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 09:37:37AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>> The kernel maintainers don't
>> support the floppy module and the module hasn't been auto-loaded for
>> several releases.
>
> Does it mean that "modprobe floppy" does not work?
No, it means that (unless t
Once upon a time, Kevin Kofler said:
> No, it means that (unless this was recently fixed) you have to modprobe it
> manually (e.g. from rc.local) because nothing bothers trying to modprobe it
> for you anymore. IMHO, this is really broken, but the bug reports about it
> were ignored or declared
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:33:04 +0200,
Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> No, it means that (unless this was recently fixed) you have to modprobe it
> manually (e.g. from rc.local) because nothing bothers trying to modprobe it
> for you anymore. IMHO, this is really broken, but the bug reports about it
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 06:50:11AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:33:04 +0200,
> Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >
> > No, it means that (unless this was recently fixed) you have to modprobe it
> > manually (e.g. from rc.local) because nothing bothers trying to modprobe it
>
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 13:41:57 +0100,
Matthew Garrett wrote:
>
> ACPI turned out to be full of lies. The real problem is that machines
> will report a floppy controller even if they have no floppy drives
> attached, and the ACPI function that's supposed to return a list of
> drives usually
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 13:41 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 06:50:11AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:33:04 +0200,
> > Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > >
> > > No, it means that (unless this was recently fixed) you have to modprobe
> > > it
> > >
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:20:22PM +0200, Tomas Mraz wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 13:41 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > ACPI turned out to be full of lies. The real problem is that machines
> > will report a floppy controller even if they have no floppy drives
> > attached, and the ACPI func
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:26:39 +0100,
Matthew Garrett wrote:
>
> Or just add floppy-support and analog-joystick-support packages that
> include appropriate modprobe.conf fragments, and have documentation that
> instructs the user to install them.
To make this more precise, woulf the approp
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:09:51AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:26:39 +0100,
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >
> > Or just add floppy-support and analog-joystick-support packages that
> > include appropriate modprobe.conf fragments, and have documentation that
> > ins
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:37:16 +0100,
Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:09:51AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:26:39 +0100,
> > Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > >
> > > Or just add floppy-support and analog-joystick-support packages that
> > > inc
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:23, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:37:16 +0100,
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:09:51AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:26:39 +0100,
>> > Matthew Garrett wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Or just add flopp
Matthew Garrett wrote:
> ACPI turned out to be full of lies. The real problem is that machines
> will report a floppy controller even if they have no floppy drives
> attached, and the ACPI function that's supposed to return a list of
> drives usually returns a mixture of falsehoods and untruths. Me
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 18:25 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > ACPI turned out to be full of lies. The real problem is that machines
> > will report a floppy controller even if they have no floppy drives
> > attached, and the ACPI function that's supposed to return a list of
>
Matthew Garrett wrote:
> There's no way to get any feedback from the gameport driver as to (a)
> whether there's anything plugged in, or (b) what is plugged in. We could
> have the gameport driver automatically pull in analog but that'd
> probably break people doing midi or using some more speciali
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 06:30:30PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> An Arch Linux user once pointed out to me that Arch (at the time) probed for
> analog joysticks using this udev rule:
> SUBSYSTEM=="pnp", ENV{MODALIAS}!="?*", ATTRS{id}=="PNPb02f",
> RUN+="/lib/udev/load-modules.sh analog"
> (They h
On Tue, 30.08.11 18:30, Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) wrote:
>
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > There's no way to get any feedback from the gameport driver as to (a)
> > whether there's anything plugged in, or (b) what is plugged in. We could
> > have the gameport driver automatically pull in
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 07:18:40PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 30.08.11 18:30, Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) wrote:
> > An Arch Linux user once pointed out to me that Arch (at the time) probed
> > for
> > analog joysticks using this udev rule:
> > SUBSYSTEM=="pnp", ENV{MODA
On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 16:58 +0200, Jos Vos wrote:
> Don't let us all fall in the GNOME3 trap (assuming that all hardware
> now has accelerated graphics support, which is even more ridiculous,
> although GNOME3 has become useless for most people I know anyway).
GNOME 3 does not do that. It has an
Simo Sorce wrote:
> It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of floppies can
> install, so that 99.9% of the others do not have to wait forever for no
> reason.
This goes against the principle that Fedora should Just Work on any hardware
it encounters if at all possible.
Kev
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 09:13:05PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Simo Sorce wrote:
> > It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of floppies can
> > install, so that 99.9% of the others do not have to wait forever for no
> > reason.
>
> This goes against the principle that Fedora should
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 21:13 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Simo Sorce wrote:
> > It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of floppies can
> > install, so that 99.9% of the others do not have to wait forever for no
> > reason.
>
> This goes against the principle that Fedora should Just W
Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> Making boot hang for long periods can easily be seen as 'Not working
> properly' and therefore make default floppy support 'not possible'.
> At least this is the reasoning I see and agree with.
How many systems are there that "hang forever" when the floppy mod
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 14:55 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> > Making boot hang for long periods can easily be seen as 'Not working
> > properly' and therefore make default floppy support 'not possible'.
> > At least this is the reasoning I see and agree with.
>
>
Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> I said:
> A) 99.9% of users do not needed the floppy anymore
> B) I said hang for "long periods" and not "forever", where here "long"
> is of course relative to modern machine boot times.
You said:
It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of f
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 15:12 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> > I said:
> > A) 99.9% of users do not needed the floppy anymore
> > B) I said hang for "long periods" and not "forever", where here "long"
> > is of course relative to modern machine boot times.
>
> You
Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> They do not 'hang', they just take longer to boot, sometimes a lot
> longer.
How much longer? How many such machines? Again, I've booted systems
without floppy drives but with floppy support loaded, and I haven't seen
any significant hang.
Leaving known-wor
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 21:12, Chris Adams wrote:
> In any case, instead of arguing semantics, can you answer my actual
> question? How many systems hang when floppy.ko is loaded? If it is a
> large number, it should be easy to point to lots of data.
Ok, just some very approximate stats for a g
Chris Adams wrote:
> Leaving known-working hardware unusable at install is just rude and
> irritating when it is needed. There should be good justification, not
> just "a bunch of developers don't use it anymore, so we don't think
> anybody else needs it".
+1
Kevin Kofler
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