Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-15 Thread Kevin Kofler
Jan Pazdziora wrote: > But you get upgraded even now. Firefox gets major-version upgrades > even within the life of the Fedora version, as do other packages. Firefox gets upgraded for security reasons. Sticking to an old version is a very bad idea. Other packages get upgraded because it is

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-14 Thread Florian Weimer
On 09/07/2017 08:50 PM, Alexander Bokovoy wrote: You may want to read http://rpm5.org/community/rpm-devel/5356.html and associated thread discussion to understand how it all works, but overall it is much better suited to cover per-symbol export and import between ELF objects. The ABI

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-14 Thread Carlos O'Donell
On 09/07/2017 01:50 PM, Alexander Bokovoy wrote: > The per-symbol API versioning in RPM was proposed five years ago by > ALT Linux people. It actually works well in their RPM fork. > > An isolated version of that code is available at https://github.com/svpv/rpmss > > You may want to read

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-07 Thread stan
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:50:15 +0300 Alexander Bokovoy wrote: > The per-symbol API versioning in RPM was proposed five years ago by > ALT Linux people. It actually works well in their RPM fork. > > An isolated version of that code is available at >

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-07 Thread Alexander Bokovoy
On to, 07 syys 2017, stan wrote: On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:27:18 +0200 Jan Pazdziora wrote: Yes, it might become a mess if the tooling is not right or clear. But it is also an opportunity to potentially get a choice between stay on the old, stable, vs. get the latest

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-07 Thread stan
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:27:18 +0200 Jan Pazdziora wrote: > Yes, it might become a mess if the tooling is not right or clear. But > it is also an opportunity to potentially get a choice between stay on > the old, stable, vs. get the latest greatest. But it seems to be the

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-09-07 Thread Jan Pazdziora
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 01:06:21PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Pavel Raiskup wrote: > > Ok, I agree that Fedora needs modules for life-cycle separation. > > I don't. I consider what you call "life-cycle separation" (I'd rather call > it "inconsistent EOLs") a bug rather than a feature. > >

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-24 Thread Kevin Kofler
Matthew Miller wrote: > Core-Extras was a bad ideas because Core was developed inside Red Hat > in a non-open way and did not allow community involvement beyond that > of beta testing. Merging it all together was probably the only > realistic way to fix that (and fixing that was absolutely the

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-24 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 03:20:12AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > This is exactly why the separate Core and Extras were such a PITA and why > the Core-Extras Merge was done. Doing the opposite now is a BAD idea. Core-Extras was a bad ideas because Core was developed inside Red Hat in a non-open

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-24 Thread Kevin Kofler
Pavel Raiskup wrote: > Ok, I agree that Fedora needs modules for life-cycle separation. I don't. I consider what you call "life-cycle separation" (I'd rather call it "inconsistent EOLs") a bug rather than a feature. This is yet another of those "features" that sound great on paper, but lead to

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-24 Thread Pavel Raiskup
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 3:20:12 AM CEST Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Samalik wrote: > > all their dependencies, we need to build them. But, for example, a pretty > > commonly needed thing like autotools [3] has pretty crazy build > > dependencies [4] including Java, gtk2, gtk3, erlang, X11,

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-23 Thread Kevin Kofler
Adam Samalik wrote: > all their dependencies, we need to build them. But, for example, a pretty > commonly needed thing like autotools [3] has pretty crazy build > dependencies [4] including Java, gtk2, gtk3, erlang, X11, python2, > python3, etc. This is exactly why the separate Core and Extras

Re: [modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-23 Thread Matthew Miller
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 09:54:25AM +0200, Adam Samalik wrote: > So instead of trying to make everything perfect from the begining, we could > build everything we need against the Bootstrap module - a module that is > used as a buildroot for Host and Platform and contains mostly everything we >

[modularity] Modularizing the world fast and iteratively

2017-08-23 Thread Adam Samalik
Starting with a summary: ​Let's 1) use something like dependency-report scripts [1] to get coordinated, and 2) make the initial builds against bootstrap so we get a working thing fast and can iterate. I've realized that developing the initial set of modules for F27 could be a bit tricky in the