On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 03:14:01PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
I haven't seen systems that boot in less than 6 seconds (and by boot I
mean power-on to login prompt). Maybe they exist, but that is not my
experience with common
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:30:13PM +0100, Björn Persson wrote:
After a few iterations I'd also be cursing the idiots who designed such
an unfriendly user interface just because they didn't want any text on
the screen.
After a few iterations you should just enable bootloader menu with
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:33 -0500
Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
On 03/11/2013 04:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
I want to encourage kids, teenagers, etc to explore the OS. We need
them to be involved in
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 09:55, schrieb drago01:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:33 -0500
Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
On 03/11/2013
On 03/11/2013 09:16 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Mon, 11.03.13 13:08, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Björn Persson bj...@xn--rombobjrn-67a.se wrote:
Or nothing at all displayed unless the user happens to know to press some key
at the
right
Hi all,
On the question of how kernel versions should be accessed, I am very
much in favour of the position that Chris Murphy expressed earlier:
choosing a kernel version is opaque to most users and requires fairly
advanced technical knowledge to understand. Invitations to access boot
options
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote:
I would love to see F19 make a good first impression. The first time you see
something Fedora-related on the screen currently is the graphical grub
screen, followed by the filling-in-Fedora of Plymouth, followed by the
On 2013-03-12 12:45, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote:
I would love to see F19 make a good first impression. The first time you see
something Fedora-related on the screen currently is the graphical grub screen,
followed by the
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
Does any other computing device you own prompt you for a boot menu? Your
mobile phone? Your TV (which likely has embedded Linux)? Your car?
Windows? OS X?
Why is that? Could it be because a boot menu is not necessary
Allan Day píše v Út 12. 03. 2013 v 11:15 +:
Hi all,
On the question of how kernel versions should be accessed, I am very
much in favour of the position that Chris Murphy expressed earlier:
choosing a kernel version is opaque to most users and requires fairly
advanced technical knowledge
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 11.03.13 13:08, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Björn Persson bj...@xn--rombobjrn-67a.se
wrote:
Or nothing at all displayed unless the user happens to know to
Hi,
On 03/12/2013 01:02 PM, Jiří Eischmann wrote:
Allan Day píše v Út 12. 03. 2013 v 11:15 +:
Hi all,
On the question of how kernel versions should be accessed, I am very
much in favour of the position that Chris Murphy expressed earlier:
choosing a kernel version is opaque to most users
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a problem to present?
I'm pretty sure it is because of where we are in the process at that
point. For example, translations - can we render Indic or CJK glyphs to
the screen at this
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 09:55, drago01 a écrit :
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:33 -0500
Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
On 03/11/2013 04:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
I want to encourage kids, teenagers, etc to
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:17, Hans de Goede a écrit :
Hi,
On 03/12/2013 01:02 PM, Jiří Eischmann wrote:
Allan Day píše v Út 12. 03. 2013 v 11:15 +:
Hi all,
On the question of how kernel versions should be accessed, I am very
much in favour of the position that Chris Murphy expressed
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a problem to present?
I'm pretty sure it is because of where we are in the process at that
point. For example, translations - can
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:52:30 +0100
Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
What about pulling the message stuff into plymouth and using
dracut to trigger a reboot which shows the grub menu? Something
along the lines: Press
On 03/12/2013 07:04 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 09:55, schrieb drago01:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:33 -0500
Michael Cronenworth
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Steve Clark scl...@netwolves.com wrote:
On 03/12/2013 07:04 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 09:55, schrieb drago01:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal
Von: Nicolas Mailhot
Gesendet: 12.03.13 13:52 Uhr
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a problem to present?
I'm pretty sure it is because of where we are in the
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 14:16, drago01 a écrit :
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Steve Clark scl...@netwolves.com wrote:
I'd say booting is a more common task then messing with bootloader
options so lets optimize for the former rather then the later.
How many times do you boot your system each
On Tue, 12.03.13 09:13, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
How many times do you boot your system each day? 10? Okay thats a
whole 20 additional seconds.
This is way up on my list of most non-sensical arguments about building
OSes, right next to Linux is about choice.
This bullshit
On 03/12/2013 09:33 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 12.03.13 09:13, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
How many times do you boot your system each day? 10? Okay thats a
whole 20 additional seconds.
This is way up on my list of most non-sensical arguments about building
OSes,
Am 11.03.2013 18:49, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
- Turn off the graphical grub screen
Even if we are not able to suppress the boot menu entirely, or having
a clean boot menu like this:
https://raw.github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/system-lock-login-boot/bootmenu.png,
Am 12.03.2013 09:55, schrieb drago01:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:22 PM, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:33 -0500
Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
On 03/11/2013 04:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
I want to encourage kids, teenagers, etc to explore
Am 12.03.2013 12:04, schrieb drago01:
Sorry but that's nonsense. Pretty much all other operating systems do
not display the boot loader by default and you see this as a reason
for showing it?
What kind of weird logic is that? Or do you really think we can have
we do show a screen that you
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a problem to present?
I'm pretty sure it is because of where we are in the process
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 08:01:54AM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
And the main lesson her is don't clutter the user interface with
useless graphical eye candy. It makes the boot process require
unnecessary system resources. The new Fedora installation setup is
currently a *nightmare*. It
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:56:57AM -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
On 03/12/2013 09:33 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 12.03.13 09:13, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
You know: *you* might not need fast boot. *Your* systems you might not
reboot only every other week. *Your* server
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a
Repeating that fast boot times matter is just as bogus as saying they
don't. The 2 or 3 seconds that's being talked about here has no
meaningful impact on anything other than embedded users and they're
probably not using grub anyway.
Fedora 18 screwed my laptop pretty thoroughly since the
On 2013-03-13 00:06, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line of text really that significant of a problem to
present?
I'm pretty sure it is
Hi,
first of all, I respect your work very much and am actually very
grateful for avahi, pulseaudio and systemd as I was for ifplugd
back in the old days when Gentoo was cool.
Fast boot times matter to dual-boot users, they matter to everybdoy who
doesn't run his system 24/7,
That is indeed
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 15:37, schrieb Dan Mashal:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a
Am 12.03.2013 15:37, schrieb Dan Mashal:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13 PM, seth vidal wrote:
Is one line
On 03/12/2013 08:30 AM, Fabian Deutsch wrote:
What about pulling the message stuff into plymouth and using dracut to
trigger a reboot which shows the grub menu? Something along the lines:
Press ESC to see deatils or 'b' to enter the bootloader
This is an interesting idea, but I don't think
Hi,
Keep in mind that the not show the menu by default plan depends on
the bootspec changes, and that will include a gui tool which will
allow users to select things like show the menu (and then it won't have
a timeout so be easier to get to), or even to directly select the
kernel to boot
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:58:05PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Hi,
I would love to see F19 make a good first impression. The first time you see
something Fedora-related on the screen currently is the graphical grub
screen, followed by the filling-in-Fedora of Plymouth, followed by the
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/12/2013 08:30 AM, Fabian Deutsch wrote:
What about pulling the message stuff into plymouth and using dracut to
trigger a reboot which shows the grub menu? Something along the lines:
Press ESC to see deatils or 'b' to enter the bootloader
This is an interesting
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 01:43:28PM -0400, Ryan Lerch wrote:
IIRC, in f17, the GRUB screen was not visible. (you could still
press f11 to bring it up if you needed it to). Does anyone know why
this behaviour changed?
I think you're thinking of F15. It was a patch we were carrying to grub1,
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:10:27 -0400
Peter Jones pjo...@redhat.com wrote:
Honestly, I'd like to do this anyway - the grub2 gfxterm code seems to
cause nothing but bugs in later graphics setup. That said, I'd rather
go back to not having it at all, but with a different plan than last
time.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 05:51:06PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 03/11/2013 05:01 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
By hooking this up to keys people would natrually try, such as shift,
space, enter, escape, or whatever windows does for their boot menu stuff.
FWIW Windows uses F8
Windows 8 on
On Mar 12, 2013 9:12 AM, Peter Jones pjo...@redhat.com wrote:
On UEFI systems, which is most new desktops:
1) we don't need any grub UI whatsoever
2) we don't need the 5 second timeout
3) we don't need to indicate to the firmware that we need USB probed
unless it's the device we're booting
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 16:09, Gerd Hoffmann a écrit :
Hi,
Keep in mind that the not show the menu by default plan depends on
the bootspec changes, and that will include a gui tool which will
allow users to select things like show the menu (and then it won't have
a timeout so be easier to get
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 16:10, Peter Jones a écrit :
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:58:05PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The idea would be to have a positive indication from systemd that
we've gotten to some pre-defined point on the previous boot (say,
starting your login manager), and not to show
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote:
New kernels bring a lot of
regressions and we don't have enough test coverage to avoid them. The
general solution to those problems is to go back to the last working
kernel version. But by making it less obvious we make
If this happens right now, what do users do? They probably take some other
computer and Google and find that you have to choose the previous kernel,
or edit the kernel cmdline. In the new world, they Google and find that you
have to hold Control and choose the previous kernel, or edit the kernel
Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote:
New kernels bring a lot of
regressions and we don't have enough test coverage to avoid them. The
general solution to those problems is to go back to the last working
kernel
On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:45 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
From: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com
Kernel update breaks system. User ignorant of hold-down key approach
is stuck. Menu at least advertises possibility of alternative.
This logic doesn't work. The user ignorant of
On 12 March 2013 09:00, Máirín Duffy du...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 03/12/2013 08:30 AM, Fabian Deutsch wrote:
What about pulling the message stuff into plymouth and using dracut to
trigger a reboot which shows the grub menu? Something along the lines:
Press ESC to see deatils or 'b' to
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:28:28AM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:10:27 -0400
Peter Jones pjo...@redhat.com wrote:
Honestly, I'd like to do this anyway - the grub2 gfxterm code seems to
cause nothing but bugs in later graphics setup. That said, I'd rather
go back to
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:51:14AM -0600, Pete Travis wrote:
For the use cases where it doesn't work, what about dropping a bootloader
config spoke into anaconda, or revealing the appropriate features in
kickstart options? Perhaps probing to test for dual boot to determine if a
brief timeout
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 17:19 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Did anyone check the X guys were ok with a setup where they had no longer
any room for error? They heavily depend on users being able to boot on the
previous kernel when there is a driver problem.
Yeah, I'm good.
- ajax
--
devel
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 05:19:52PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 16:10, Peter Jones a écrit :
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:58:05PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The idea would be to have a positive indication from systemd that
we've gotten to some pre-defined point on
On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote:
New kernels bring a lot of
regressions and we don't have enough test coverage to avoid them. The
Hi,
This is an interesting idea, but I don't think plymouth makes it any
easier to display CJK Indic glyphs. (Please someone more technical
tell me if I'm wrong here, I vaguely remember this being an issue when
we wanted to add a messagse to fedup)
I hoped that it would be easier to
From: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com
On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:45 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
From: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com
Kernel update breaks system. User ignorant of hold-down key approach
is stuck. Menu at least advertises possibility of alternative.
On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Alec Leamas leamas.a...@gmail.com wrote:
I *do* appreciate the attempts to get a clean, graphically consistent boot
experience. And to be frank, I wonder if not WIn 8 (and perhaps Mac) has got
it right. It's just that a Fedora box isn't a Win8 or a Mac, and
On 03/12/2013 02:03 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote:
New kernels bring a lot of
regressions and we don't have
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 07:17:26PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 18:51, schrieb Peter Jones:
So I'd really rather have it so that /under normal circumstances/, if the
user wants the non-default kernel or parameters, they tell us so before
rebooting
/under normal
Once upon a time, Alec Leamas leamas.a...@gmail.com said:
I *do* appreciate the attempts to get a clean, graphically consistent
boot experience. And to be frank, I wonder if not WIn 8 (and perhaps
Mac) has got it right. It's just that a Fedora box isn't a Win8 or a
Mac, and the boot UI
Fedora isn't windows. Its not OSX. It should never be those things and
I'm grateful for it.
The boot menu doesn't hurt anything. It has benefits.
What are the benefits of removing the boot menu?
* Saving upwards of 5 seconds per day! My god, think of the
productivity boost!
* Its
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:31:36PM -0400, Brian Wheeler wrote:
Fedora isn't windows. Its not OSX. It should never be those things
and I'm grateful for it.
We shouldn't ignore developments done in other camps. NIH is bad.
What are the benefits of removing the boot menu?
* Saving upwards
On 03/12/2013 02:24 PM, Brian Wheeler wrote:
On 03/12/2013 02:03 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 17:32, schrieb Chris Murphy:
On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Jiří Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com
wrote:
New
Von: Ray Strode
This is an interesting idea, but I don't think plymouth makes it any
easier to display CJK Indic glyphs. (Please someone more technical
tell me if I'm wrong here, I vaguely remember this being an issue when
we wanted to add a messagse to fedup)
I hoped that it would
Am 12.03.2013 18:51, schrieb Peter Jones:
So I'd really rather have it so that /under normal circumstances/, if the
user wants the non-default kernel or parameters, they tell us so before
rebooting
/under normal circumstances/ you do not often need this
and if booting fails comepletly after
Am 12.03.2013 19:03, schrieb Chris Murphy:
i learned it many years ago by facing the boot-menu
Well you wouldn't learn it today because of how grub2-mkconfig and grubby
interact.
ah and because things got worser you would make it more worse
Your first kernel update depends on grubby
Am 12.03.2013 19:31, schrieb Peter Jones:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 07:17:26PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 18:51, schrieb Peter Jones:
So I'd really rather have it so that /under normal circumstances/, if the
user wants the non-default kernel or parameters, they tell us so
Am 12.03.2013 19:35, schrieb Tomasz Torcz:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:31:36PM -0400, Brian Wheeler wrote:
Fedora isn't windows. Its not OSX. It should never be those things
and I'm grateful for it.
We shouldn't ignore developments done in other camps. NIH is bad
nobody says ignore
but
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:38:39 +0100
Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 19:35, schrieb Tomasz Torcz:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:31:36PM -0400, Brian Wheeler wrote:
Fedora isn't windows. Its not OSX. It should never be those
things and I'm grateful for it.
We
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 07:36:56PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
hpw do you imagine the system to smell booting the new
one has failed? if it fails it will hopefully not remount
the rootfs RW (if it would be possible at this time)
and write something to disk so that the next reboot knows
hmm
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:51:10 -0400
Peter Jones pjo...@redhat.com wrote:
...snip...
So, the problems with that when we implemented it on grub1 were
numerous, but basically they're all of one variety:
1) we have to clear the buffer at some point because BIOSes often
leave junk in them
2)
On 03/12/2013 02:23 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 19:03, schrieb Chris Murphy:
i learned it many years ago by facing the boot-menu
Well you wouldn't learn it today because of how grub2-mkconfig and grubby
interact.
ah and because things got worser you would make it more worse
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 03:21:54PM -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
On 03/12/2013 02:23 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
but the better option for us all would be if people with
this attitude switch to these operating systems instead
damage slowly what we know as UNIX-LIKE system
I *completely* *detest*
On 03/12/2013 02:35 PM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:31:36PM -0400, Brian Wheeler wrote:
Fedora isn't windows. Its not OSX. It should never be those things
and I'm grateful for it.
We shouldn't ignore developments done in other camps. NIH is bad.
Of course it is.
And how does the proposal here remove functionality or lower
maintainability?
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Brian Wheeler bdwhe...@indiana.edu wrote:
On 03/12/2013 02:35 PM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:31:36PM -0400, Brian Wheeler wrote:
Fedora isn't windows. Its not
I tried breaking this thread down into its components and summarizing
the discussion and points brought up thus far. I hope it helps:
http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/03/12/improving-the-fedora-boot-experience/
~m
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:38:32PM -0400, Ryan Lerch wrote:
I know it is a simplification, but to me, the two sides of this
argument are:
* remove the hood of the car, and keep it off in case something goes
wrong, or to entice new drivers to look in there and guess what is
going on.
* keep
Sure, and I'm sure the rental company wouldn't want you to pop the hood.
... wait, what were we saying about bootloaders again?
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Máirín Duffy du...@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
On 03/12/2013 05:01 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
That, plus whether the lever to open the
On 12/03/13 11:31 AM, Chris Adams wrote:
Here's the other large difference between the typical Linux install and
Windows/Mac OS: Linux has choices that can be made at boot. When the
other OSes update their equivalent to the kernel, they don't leave
multiple kernels installed that can be chosen
On 03/12/2013 05:15 PM, Jasper St. Pierre wrote:
Sure, and I'm sure the rental company wouldn't want you to pop the hood.
Not having a rental car break down on the side of the highway in an
unfamiliar city is certainly a luxury.
~m
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 09:56 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
On 03/12/2013 09:33 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 12.03.13 09:13, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
How many times do you boot your system each day? 10? Okay thats a
whole 20 additional seconds.
This is way up on
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 22:37 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 22:34, schrieb Simo Sorce:
I reboot VMs a lot for development, 2 seconds do make a difference
Bruhahaha
100 reboots = 200 seconds = 3.3 Minutes more for 100 reboots
well, i boot probably more VMs you have ever seen
Am 12.03.2013 22:34, schrieb Simo Sorce:
I reboot VMs a lot for development, 2 seconds do make a difference
Bruhahaha
100 reboots = 200 seconds = 3.3 Minutes more for 100 reboots
well, i boot probably more VMs you have ever seen BUT if two
seconds are really counting you are doing something
Am 12.03.2013 23:13, schrieb Simo Sorce:
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 22:37 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 22:34, schrieb Simo Sorce:
I reboot VMs a lot for development, 2 seconds do make a difference
Bruhahaha
100 reboots = 200 seconds = 3.3 Minutes more for 100 reboots
well, i
+1
On Mar 12, 2013 7:37 AM, Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Von: Máirín Duffy
On 03/11/2013 05:13
On 2013-03-12, 11:45 GMT, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
users _have to_ interact with is solid? Like having a prompt for the
hard disk passphrase that tells the user in text what is necessary,
and actually looks like a text input field? (Have you seen how
confused a newbie is when turning on a Linux
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 05:34:43PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
I reboot VMs a lot for development, 2 seconds do make a difference, it's
a little thing but 99% of the time I do not care about what is shown,
just that the machine is back up as fast as possible.
This is also pretty important for
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 19:04, Peter Jones a écrit :
Obviously we need to do a good job of making sure we tolerate failures,
and there are multiple ways to do this - if you reboot N times within M
seconds or somesuch might be a worthwhile heuristic.
By definition an heuristic is unreliable. The
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 13:17 +0100, Hans de Goede wrote:
Keep in mind that the not show the menu by default plan depends on
the bootspec changes, and that will include a gui tool which will
allow users to select things like show the menu (and then it won't have
a timeout so be easier to get
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 21:53, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
I tried breaking this thread down into its components and summarizing
the discussion and points brought up thus far. I hope it helps:
http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/03/12/improving-the-fedora-boot-experience/
Máirín,
The proposal discussed
On 03/12/2013 06:10 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
The proposal discussed here is not to keep the hood on the car.
The proposal is to remove any indication there is a hood, and show the
user a seamless surface with no hint it can be opened (or how).
Reminds me of the time I had to pay like $90 for
On 12 March 2013 17:10, Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
Le Mar 12 mars 2013 21:53, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
I tried breaking this thread down into its components and summarizing
the discussion and points brought up thus far. I hope it helps:
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
The proposal discussed here is not to keep the hood on the car.
The proposal is to remove any indication there is a hood, and show the
user a seamless surface with no hint it can be opened (or how).
However,
On 03/12/2013 02:36 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
sorry, i have no other words for this discussion as braindead
Check please!
Hall monitors?
~m
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On 03/12/2013 07:24 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
I am saying this because I agree. To me the proposal (not the original
but some point in the the 500 ms boot time ideal ) seemed very much
a welded shut view. And as someone who has to worked on welded shut
computers for asthetic reasons.. it
On 03/12/2013 08:02 PM, Gianluca Sforna wrote:
However, pretty much every operating system out there has a special
key or combo to activate a boot menu, which is otherwise not
accessible. I don't think Linux users are less capable to find out
what they need to press at boot, when things need
Hi,
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Matej Cepl mc...@redhat.com wrote:
And which doesn’t nonsensically short timeout, so that I manage to get
booted sometimes only on third or fourth attempt (yes, I am easily
distracted to do something else while the system boots up; you have
a problem with
My machine suspends to disk when I close the lid while it is unplugged. So ...
Quite often. I would love to see the GRUB menu disabled by default, but I am
also content with doing it myself post-install.
On Mon 11 March 2013 21:51:01 Steve Clark wrote:
On 03/11/2013 05:04 PM, Lennart Poettering
On 2013-03-12 14:33 (GMT+0100) Lennart Poettering composed:
Fast boot times ... increase reliability, and
How?
applicability.
What?
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The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User
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