On Thu, Oct 01, 2020 at 12:08:19PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> Clearly, there is a case for making systemd-resolved "default with
> an option to opt-out". It makes no sense that these deployments
> must install and ensure to then disable and keep disabled, the
> systemd-resolved daemon.
I fully
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020, Neal Gompa wrote:
Essentially, split-horizon DNS setups on Fedora systems become
possible with this change.
As reported by libreswan and openvpn developers already in the last
two days, these are already possible without systemd-resolved and
people have relied on that for
On 10/1/20 8:20 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
> (rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing
> implying otherwise.
> IOW you just say: *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager.
They
On 10/1/20 12:00 AM, Joe Doss wrote:
> On 9/30/20 7:14 PM, Colin Walters wrote:
>> That's not true, you can `rpm-ostree override remove`. It'd still be
>> there in the ostree repository on disk, but you don't see it in the
>> "deployment" (what you actually boot into). Few people care about
>>
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:06 AM Peter Robinson wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:53 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 8:34 AM Peter Robinson wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:27 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher
> >
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:53 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 8:34 AM Peter Robinson wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:27 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > >
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 8:34 AM Peter Robinson wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:27 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher
> > > > wrote:
>
On Thu, Oct 01, 2020 at 12:55:40PM +0200, Petr Pisar wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 04:26:39PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > In addition, two more new subpackages are created:
> > systemd-standalone-sysusers
> > and systemd-standalone-tmpfiles, with custom-linked
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:27 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher wrote:
> >
> > On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> > >> And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
>
> > > > > Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
> > > > (rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing
> > > > implying otherwise.
> > > > IOW you just say: *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager.
> > > They are not the same. Regular Fedora is
> > > Hi Zbyszek,
> > > Would it make sense to do the same for systemd-resolved ?
> > > Sounds like it has similar impact/scope wrt coreos.
> >
> > Yes please, I would like this for Edge/IoT too (both network/resolved)
> > as there are use cases there where we'd like not to ship these too.
> >
>
>
On 9/30/20 10:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> There are not a ton of advantages for splitting it, since it's only a
> couple of binaries averaging 2MB with a few unit files. Given that we
> require it for default NetworkManager configurations now, there's not
> a lot of value in making that
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 04:26:39PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> In addition, two more new subpackages are created: systemd-standalone-sysusers
> and systemd-standalone-tmpfiles, with custom-linked systemd-sysusers and
> systemd-tmpfiles binaries.
root@fedora-34:~ # dnf --quiet
On Thu, Oct 01, 2020 at 11:05:18AM +0200, Petr Menšík wrote:
>
>
> On 9/30/20 10:36 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 02:21:19PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> >>
> >>> the systemd package is getting a
On 9/30/20 10:36 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 02:21:19PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>>
>>> the systemd package is getting a systemd-networkd subpackage split out
>>> that will contain systemd-networkd,
On 9/30/20 7:14 PM, Colin Walters wrote:
That's not true, you can `rpm-ostree override remove`. It'd still be
there in the ostree repository on disk, but you don't see it in the
"deployment" (what you actually boot into). Few people care about
disk space that much, and if you do you can do
On 9/30/20 4:36 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:27 PM Matthew Miller wrote:
"All Fedora variants, both with ostree and without..." maybe? OSTree-based
variants are also "regular Fedora".
I would only even remotely consider agreeing with that premise for
Silverblue. Neither
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> Regular Fedora variants are installed via normal package management
> actions and have full granularity. RPM-OSTree reduces the granularity
> of the operating system to a singular image that you layer on top. But
> you cannot pull out stuff
On 9/30/20 2:34 PM, Paul Wouters wrote:
> And as I indicated earlier, most server installs have no use for
> systemd-resolved. Yes it can be disabled, but we didn't go all the
> way to virtual servers and containers to have to install things
> we will never use.
+1, & simply 'minimal' installs
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:27 PM Matthew Miller wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 04:32:07PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > > Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
> > > (rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing
> > > implying otherwise.
>
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, Neal Gompa wrote:
since it's only a
couple of binaries averaging 2MB with a few unit files.
My reply was aimed at Peter saying he'd like to not ship resolved, and
I'm saying that we should *not* do that, because it makes things even
harder and more complicated.
These
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 04:32:07PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
> > (rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing
> > implying otherwise.
> > IOW you just say: *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager.
>
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:45 PM PGNet Dev wrote:
>
> anyone else more confused?
>
> On 9/30/20 1:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > And like it or not, all our legacy network configuration mechanisms
> > are deprecated and*will be removed eventually*.
>
> is plain-vanilla systemd-networkd -- no NM
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 01:45:13PM -0700, PGNet Dev wrote:
> anyone else more confused?
>
> On 9/30/20 1:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > And like it or not, all our legacy network configuration mechanisms
> > are deprecated and*will be removed eventually*.
>
> is plain-vanilla systemd-networkd --
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:59:20PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 06:50:08PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > >The main systemd systemd package Obsoletes the -standalone- packages, so it
> > >should smoothly replace them whenever it is pulled in.
> >
> > I am confused by
anyone else more confused?
On 9/30/20 1:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> And like it or not, all our legacy network configuration mechanisms
> are deprecated and*will be removed eventually*.
is plain-vanilla systemd-networkd -- no NM wrapper around it, no (in)direct
dependency on systemd-resolved --
On 9/30/2020 1:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher wrote:
On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher wrote:
And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
it's the default, doesn't mean
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 02:21:19PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>
> >the systemd package is getting a systemd-networkd subpackage split out
> >that will contain systemd-networkd, networkctl, and the associated data
> >files.
> >This was
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:29 PM Colin Walters wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> > Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
>
> (rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing
> implying otherwise.
>
> IOW you
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> Moreover, *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager. *ALL* OSTree
(rpm)ostree variants are Fedora variants - please don't using phrasing implying
otherwise.
IOW you just say: *all* Fedora variants use NetworkManager.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 02:21:19PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> With enterprise server deployments, DNS will be managed by the network
> via resolve.conf to enterprise DNS servers. These servers tend to have
> "bind views" for different category of deployments. These deployments
> will have no
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ian Pilcher wrote:
>
> On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> >> And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
> >> it's the default, doesn't mean that it's used everywhere.)
>
On 9/30/20 2:19 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher wrote:
And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
it's the default, doesn't mean that it's used everywhere.)
NetworkManager is used everywhere by default. If you want to
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00 pm, Ian Pilcher
wrote:
And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
it's the default, doesn't mean that it's used everywhere.)
NetworkManager is used everywhere by default. If you want to disable
it, you have to do manual work to do that.
On 9/30/20 1:35 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
Please, no more package splitting. And NetworkManager is used across
all variants of Fedora, so resolved should be installed in all places
where NetworkManager is used.
And what about places where NetworkManager isn't used? (Just because
it's the default,
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:48 PM Peter Robinson wrote:
>
> > Hi Zbyszek,
> > Would it make sense to do the same for systemd-resolved ?
> > Sounds like it has similar impact/scope wrt coreos.
>
> Yes please, I would like this for Edge/IoT too (both network/resolved)
> as there are use cases there
On 9/30/20 11:21 AM, Paul Wouters wrote:
> It also allows those Destop users that want to use their own validating
> resolvers on the end node to uninstall systemd-resolved.
Would separating the package preserve existing setups across upgrades?
It's not simply Enterprise/Server 'or' Desktops
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
the systemd package is getting a systemd-networkd subpackage split out
that will contain systemd-networkd, networkctl, and the associated data files.
This was requested by coreos maintainers: NetworkManager is used and skipping
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 06:50:08PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >The main systemd systemd package Obsoletes the -standalone- packages, so it
> >should smoothly replace them whenever it is pulled in.
>
> I am confused by this bit. If systemd package Obsoletes the
> -standalone- packages,
On 30. 09. 20 18:26, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
The main systemd systemd package Obsoletes the -standalone- packages, so it
should smoothly replace them whenever it is pulled in.
I am confused by this bit. If systemd package Obsoletes the -standalone-
packages, installing them is not
> Hi Zbyszek,
> Would it make sense to do the same for systemd-resolved ?
> Sounds like it has similar impact/scope wrt coreos.
Yes please, I would like this for Edge/IoT too (both network/resolved)
as there are use cases there where we'd like not to ship these too.
Peter
> On Wed, 2020-09-30
Hi Zbyszek,
Would it make sense to do the same for systemd-resolved ?
Sounds like it has similar impact/scope wrt coreos.
On Wed, 2020-09-30 at 16:26 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the systemd package is getting a systemd-networkd subpackage split out
> that will contain
Hi,
the systemd package is getting a systemd-networkd subpackage split out
that will contain systemd-networkd, networkctl, and the associated data files.
This was requested by coreos maintainers: NetworkManager is used and skipping
systemd-networkd allows the installation footprint and potential
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