Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-12 Thread Daniel Drake
On 12 May 2010 09:36, Paul Fox wrote: > i understand that hardware does a lot of filtering.  i was > referring specifically to the 1.5's current lack of wake-on-arp > (thank you for making me realize there's no specific bug open for > this issue -- though it's buried in #9535) Filed #10157, speci

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-12 Thread Paul Fox
john wrote: > > ...the biggest > > problem area in terms of suspending and not coming back is the > > network, and without "wake-on-precisely-what-i'm-waiting-for", > > that's problematic. > > Most wireless and Ethernet chips can be configured to

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-12 Thread John Gilmore
> ...the biggest > problem area in terms of suspending and not coming back is the > network, and without "wake-on-precisely-what-i'm-waiting-for", > that's problematic. Most wireless and Ethernet chips can be configured to interrupt or wake on preci

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Ben Schwartz
On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:31 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 8:59 PM, John Gilmore wrote: > >> > just fix the kernel so the suspend > >> > ends when the next process wants to run. > >> > >> Have a look at powertop -- you'll never suspend, there are several > >> hundred wakeu

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 8:59 PM, John Gilmore wrote: >> > just fix the kernel so the suspend >> > ends when the next process wants to run. >> >> Have a look at powertop -- you'll never suspend, there are several >> hundred wakeups per second. > > Did we give up on fixing these? No, and as Ben men

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Paul Fox
john wrote: > Is OLPC's Idle-Suspend not waking up the machine when the next process > wants to run? No wonder you're having all these problems where it suspends > and doesn't come back. Don't fix it with 27 kludge patches (to audio > players, to network managers, etc), just fix the kernel so

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread John Gilmore
> > just fix the kernel so the suspend > > ends when the next process wants to run. > > Have a look at powertop -- you'll never suspend, there are several > hundred wakeups per second. Did we give up on fixing these? (I don't have an XO-1.5 so I can't see its powertop results.) > If you want to

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread James Cameron
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:15:21PM -0300, Daniel Drake wrote: > When connected to a network without a school server (i.e. using salut > collaboration), if one of the machines is sleeping while another > machine shares an activity with the neighbourhood, upon wakeup that > first machine won't see th

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Ben Schwartz
On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 19:10 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:09 PM, John Gilmore wrote: > > just fix the kernel so the suspend > > ends when the next process wants to run. > > Have a look at powertop -- you'll never suspend, there are several > hundred wakeups per second.

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:09 PM, John Gilmore wrote: > just fix the kernel so the suspend > ends when the next process wants to run. Have a look at powertop -- you'll never suspend, there are several hundred wakeups per second. If you want to do better than super-idling the way that recent kerne

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread John Gilmore
Is OLPC's Idle-Suspend not waking up the machine when the next process wants to run? No wonder you're having all these problems where it suspends and doesn't come back. Don't fix it with 27 kludge patches (to audio players, to network managers, etc), just fix the kernel so the suspend ends when t

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Daniel Drake
On 10 May 2010 10:59, Daniel Drake wrote: > Laptops have not yet been handed out here in La Rioja, but a few have > been handed around to various parts of the MinEd and support staff, so > we're already seeing some bug reports and user experiences rolling in. > > The idle-suspend experience has be

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-11 Thread Paul Fox
i wrote: > daniel wrote: > > > > 3. After a lid-suspend, the machine frequently sleeps before it has > > scanned or reconnected for wireless networks. The user sits there > > waiting and waiting for the network to appear again, and it's not > > going to appear until they realise what's

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread James Cameron
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:59:50AM -0300, Daniel Drake wrote: > Laptops have not yet been handed out here in La Rioja, but a few have > been handed around to various parts of the MinEd and support staff, so > we're already seeing some bug reports and user experiences rolling in. Which build? > 3.

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Paul Fox
daniel wrote: > On 10 May 2010 15:47, Richard A. Smith wrote: > > Is it suspending in the act of sending or while waiting for the response > > packet? > > Any suggestions on how to identify this? well, if you can reliably recreate this, it would be worth turning on powerd tracing so that i

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Daniel Drake
On 10 May 2010 15:47, Richard A. Smith wrote: > Is it suspending in the act of sending or while waiting for the response > packet? Any suggestions on how to identify this? > I'm curious why the the incoming response packets are not causing a WOL. This is certainly not working properly, the bug

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Paul Fox
smith wrote: > On 05/10/2010 10:38 AM, Paul Fox wrote: > > > > 2. The machine suspends frequently while it is loading a web page, and > > > does not wake up, meaning that the web page doesn't finish loading > > > until you realise what's happened and intervene > > > > i'm going to

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Richard A. Smith
On 05/10/2010 10:38 AM, Paul Fox wrote: > > 2. The machine suspends frequently while it is loading a web page, and > > does not wake up, meaning that the web page doesn't finish loading > > until you realise what's happened and intervene > > i'm going to venture a guess that the network t

Re: Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Paul Fox
daniel -- problems noted. i agree with the team that increasing the timeout to a minutes seems prudent for the time being. i have some ideas on how to make inhibiting suspend more robust, and i've been working on the dcon issue(s) (#9631, #9664) in the last day or so. daniel wrote: > Laptops ha

Idle-suspend a little too intrusive to user experience?

2010-05-10 Thread Daniel Drake
Laptops have not yet been handed out here in La Rioja, but a few have been handed around to various parts of the MinEd and support staff, so we're already seeing some bug reports and user experiences rolling in. The idle-suspend experience has been causing some discomfort. Specifically 4 cases: 1