> I'd like to hear from the senior devs (and anyone else with something
> intelligent to say!) on this.
You need a steering committee to represent the customers on things like this.
I didn't find enough info in the wiki page to enlighten me. I get the
general idea, but I don't know the tag t
Matthew Selsky via devel :
> Eric, didn't you file a ticket with waf
> (https://github.com/waf-project/waf/issues/1897) for this same issue in
> January 2017?
That's clearly the same functional issue, but at the time I did not yet have
any idea that waf itself was (even partly) the victim of an
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 07:30:02PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
> Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > > 2. Gary files a bug upstream to the Python devs detailing how
> > > get_python_lib() is implicated in FHS nonconformance. Gary, you
> > > willing?
> >
> > I'm feeling like a broken record.
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:04:53 -0400 (EDT)
"Eric S. Raymond via devel" wrote:
> Once his patch was applied, however, it broke FHS conformance in the
> install paths. On further investigation, it appears that:
I'm not gonna agree, but that does not matter. Until we agree
on the desired
Some clarity is emerging about the build problems addressed in Fred
Wright's patch from last night. He originally wrote:
1) Adds a workaround for waf's broken code that sets up PYTHONDIR and
PYTHONARCHDIR. The code is conceptually broken on all platforms, though
it may produce correct
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:15:49 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> > Spend some time reading how Linus does his releases.
>
> Got a suggested URL?
I used to follow LKML, but that got impossible for me.
LWN.net does a fair job keeping up with the major twists and turns
in the daily soap opera th
> Spend some time reading how Linus does his releases.
Got a suggested URL?
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> 1. python tests still not run by the build script
What do I type to run them? I have a handy script which is a good place for
things like that.
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Fred Wright via devel :
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > Fred Wright via devel :
> >
> > > BTW, I have a tool that lists a few things including the library paths for
> > > every version of Python it can find on the system. I can submit it to
> > > devel/ if you like.
> >
> > Pl
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > 2. Gary files a bug upstream to the Python devs detailing how
> > get_python_lib() is implicated in FHS nonconformance. Gary, you
> > willing?
>
> I'm feeling like a broken record. The current behavior is a feature,
> not a bug. You know I love to bash Python, but
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Fred Wright via devel :
>
> > BTW, I have a tool that lists a few things including the library paths for
> > every version of Python it can find on the system. I can submit it to
> > devel/ if you like.
>
> Please do.
MR submitted.
Fred Wright
_
Yo Ian!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:03:45 -0500
Ian Bruene via devel wrote:
> The quirks with the
> module installation have always made me less than confident with
> anything on the Py3 side of things.
What quirks? It was working fine for me.
> Hindsight: should have asked if anyone was using it.
On 09/26/2017 05:53 PM, Gary E. Miller via devel wrote:
Yo Ian!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 12:40:52 -0500
Ian Bruene via devel wrote:
Under these circumstances I strongly suggest that there be a note in
the README to the effect that python 3 compatibility is not
guaranteed.
I have been occasional
Ian Bruene via devel :
>
>
> On 09/26/2017 05:02 PM, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
> >Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD
> >buildbot.
>
> Two reasons:
>
> 1. python tests still not run by the build script
>
> 2. subsequent reports are inconsistent on whet
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:55:31 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond via devel" wrote:
> > > Does this means the FHS nonconformance isc an upstream bug?
> >
> > Exactly. And one that nobody bothered to complain about for GPSD.
>
> Well, *that* changes things a lot.
>
> 2. Gary files a bug upstre
Fred Wright via devel :
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > Fred Wright via devel :
> > > > Not Gentoo, the FHS. And the package I am using is git head.
> > >
> > > The point is that the portable way to determine where to install the
> > > libraries is to ask Python via the get_py
Yo Ian!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 12:40:52 -0500
Ian Bruene via devel wrote:
> Under these circumstances I strongly suggest that there be a note in
> the README to the effect that python 3 compatibility is not
> guaranteed.
I have been occasionally testing on Python 3.4. Gentoo is still on Python
2.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Ian Bruene via devel wrote:
> On 09/26/2017 05:02 PM, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
> > Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD
> > buildbot.
>
> Two reasons:
>
> 1. python tests still not run by the build script
Ah, yes. Two of the tests we
On 09/26/2017 05:02 PM, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD buildbot.
Two reasons:
1. python tests still not run by the build script
2. subsequent reports are inconsistent on whether FreeBSD has a problem
or Fred's system i
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Hal Murray wrote:
> devel@ntpsec.org said:
> > If that's also FreeBSD 10.3 and Python 2.7.13, then it must be something
> > weird in my install, and nothing to worry about in general.
>
> I've tested 10.3 and 11.0 on 64 bit Intel, 11.0 on 32 bit Intel, and 11.0 on
> ARM (Pi, a
On 09/26/2017 05:28 PM, Fred Wright via devel wrote:
[error snipped]
I have no idea whether this affects anything real or whether it's just a
test artifact. If the latter, it's clearly not a release blocker.
This error does not effect the program itself. It is part of a test jig
which is sp
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> If that's also FreeBSD 10.3 and Python 2.7.13, then it must be something
> weird in my install, and nothing to worry about in general.
I've tested 10.3 and 11.0 on 64 bit Intel, 11.0 on 32 bit Intel, and 11.0 on
ARM (Pi, and BBB)
Your earlier message said:
FreeBSD Ma
On 09/26/2017 04:20 PM, Fred Wright via devel wrote:
I also notcied that test_agentx.py doesn't work with Python 3, but my
impression is that the agentx stuff is still a WIP, anyway.
This is true.
Indeed. When I started looking at the ntpq bug, I noticed that there
seemed to be some incons
Yo Fred!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
Fred Wright via devel wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > Fred Wright via devel :
> > > > Not Gentoo, the FHS. And the package I am using is git head.
> > >
> > > The point is that the portable way to determine where to
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Hal Murray via devel wrote:
> devel@ntpsec.org said:
> >> BTW, all the tests fail on FreeBSD, due to an undefined
> >> reference in jigs.py.
> > Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD
> > buildbot.
>
> It works on my FreeBSD setup.
If that's als
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Fred Wright via devel :
> > BTW, all the tests fail on FreeBSD, due to an undefined reference in
> > jigs.py.
>
> Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD
> buildbot.
I don't know, but what I see here is this:
$ cd ntps
devel@ntpsec.org said:
>> BTW, all the tests fail on FreeBSD, due to an undefined
>> reference in jigs.py.
> Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD
> buildbot.
It works on my FreeBSD setup.
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Fred Wright via devel :
> > > Not Gentoo, the FHS. And the package I am using is git head.
> >
> > The point is that the portable way to determine where to install the
> > libraries is to ask Python via the get_python_lib() function. Whatever it
> >
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> Locally installed user source is supposed to go in /usr/local/.
>
> System packages are supposed to go in /usr/
>
> Not obeying the 30 year old convention of wchich to pick is bad. But
> the new patches put some in /usr and some in /usr/local/which is just
> wrong.
Fred Wright via devel :
> BTW, all the tests fail on FreeBSD, due to an undefined reference in
> jigs.py.
Huh? If so, why has this not shown up in the results from the FreeBSD buildbot.
> Indeed. When I started looking at the ntpq bug, I noticed that there
> seemed to be some inconsistencies in
Fred Wright via devel :
> > Not Gentoo, the FHS. And the package I am using is git head.
>
> The point is that the portable way to determine where to install the
> libraries is to ask Python via the get_python_lib() function. Whatever it
> returns (as long as you don't supply the 'prefix' argume
Yo Fred!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
Fred Wright via devel wrote:
> Resending with the correct subject.
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > Fred Wright via devel :
> > > > Plus these are most likely too late for 1.0. We are in the
> > > > final testing phases now
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
> Ian Bruene via devel :
> >
> > The python 3 build appears to work. However it has a unicode bug in ntpq
> > (but not ntpmon! Yay consistency!), and I can not say that I *trust* any of
> > it.
> >
> > This is partially my fault, as I failed to
Resending with the correct subject.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Fred Wright via devel :
> > > Plus these are most likely too late for 1.0. We are in the final
> > > testing phases now.
> >
> > I think requiring users to set PYTHONPATH to run the tools should be
> > considered a
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Fred Wright via devel :
> > > Plus these are most likely too late for 1.0. We are in the final
> > > testing phases now.
> >
> > I think requiring users to set PYTHONPATH to run the tools should be
> > considered a show stopper for a 1.0 release.
>
>
Ian Bruene via devel :
> Post-1.0 I'd like to take a systematic look at how data is flowing through
> the code and how it is being represented by the different versions of
> python. I can't tell for sure yet what is and isn't a kluge. I know for
> example that my fix earlier today was a band-aid du
On 09/26/2017 03:19 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
Can you get enough verificaion in a week? We may have to push back the release
for other reasons.
I can hammer on it, if nothing serious shows up it should be fine.
Post-1.0 I'd like to take a systematic look at how data is flowing
through the
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond via devel wrote:
> Hal Murray :
> > The permissions on the stuff in ntpclients had the execute bit removed so
> > local testing doesn't work any more. I assume install fixes that since you
> > reported that ntpq worked.
> >
> > In particular, tests/options-te
Ian Bruene via devel :
>
> The python 3 build appears to work. However it has a unicode bug in ntpq
> (but not ntpmon! Yay consistency!), and I can not say that I *trust* any of
> it.
>
> This is partially my fault, as I failed to test the software in Py3 as much
> as I should have. As an excuse
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> I've restored that magic link.
>
> It fell to ab attempt to stop creating a now unneeded magic link in the
> source part of the tree. I won't try to re-fix that before release.
That code *used to* create magic links in the source tree, but I changed
hmur...@megapathdsl.net said:
> Testing Python code is broken. It's using the system libraries rather than
> the new/local libraries.
Author: Eric S. Raymond
Date: Tue Sep 26 13:59:10 2017 -0400
Restore accidentally removed creation of a magigic ntp/ link.
Fixed. Thanks.
--
These a
Yo Fred!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 00:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Fred Wright via devel wrote:
> If the directory choice on gentoo is inappropriate, take that up with
> whomever packaged Python for it.
Not Gentoo, the FHS. And the package I am using is git head.
RGDS
GARY
Yo Daniele!
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 22:24:39 -0600
Daniele Nicolodi via devel wrote:
> > The default gentoo PYTHONPATH onlly looks for system installed
> > python libs. We don't want to install NTPsec python files in the
> > system reserved directories. Thus PYTHONPATH is the only
> > solution.
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 11:21:09 -0700
Hal Murray via devel wrote:
> Our libraries currently get installed in places like:
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ntp/version.py
>
> Should we be using ntpsec rather than ntp?
Sadly, the recent patch broke that.
They now go here, which v
On 09/26/2017 01:21 PM, Hal Murray via devel wrote:
Should we be using ntpsec rather than ntp?
If so we need to know *now*. Because every python file will need its
imports changed.
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No. A Man Chooses, a Slave Obeys. -- Andrew
Our libraries currently get installed in places like:
/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ntp/version.py
Should we be using ntpsec rather than ntp?
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Yo Eric!
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 05:35:36 -0400 (EDT)
"Eric S. Raymond via devel" wrote:
> Please, everybody get on the stick and test on every platform you can
> reach. We need to know that, *without* a PYTHONPATH set,
>
> 1. Build works.
Sort of.
> 2. ntpq and friends are able to see the Pytho
> Following Fred's change, client tests now need to be run from build/main/
> ntpcllients rather than the source directory. I have pushed a change to
> tests/options-tester.sh that does this; please verify.
Did you actually test your version? It didn't work for me. I just pushed a
fix.
Testi
The python 3 build appears to work. However it has a unicode bug in ntpq
(but not ntpmon! Yay consistency!), and I can not say that I *trust* any
of it.
This is partially my fault, as I failed to test the software in Py3 as
much as I should have. As an excuse I will note that I fixed several
I pushed a fix for both of these.
On 09/26/2017 11:48 AM, Ian Bruene wrote:
python3 build: fails, can't find ntp module, after installing p3
version it runs but crashes with a type conversion error (I'll get on
this right away)
python3.6 build: ditto, but also crashes with a "ModuleNotFoundEr
Eric S. Raymond via devel writes:
> Please check in on this list as you verify that your platform is OK.
It would be nice if waf said anything about the need to re-configure
when appropriate.
Regards,
Achim.
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Samples for th
Running tests on the new build changes:
Build and run tests:
=
standard build (python 2.7): runs normally, uses the correct libraries
from the build (this worked for me without any thingamijiggery anyway)
python3 build: tests run and use the correct libraries without
install
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Eric S. Raymond via devel
wrote:
> Please, everybody get on the stick and test on every platform you can
> reach. We need to know that, *without* a PYTHONPATH set,
I tested CentOS 6.6. I used to have to export PYTHONPATH on this
platform. Now all tools in build/ma
Hal Murray :
> The permissions on the stuff in ntpclients had the execute bit removed so
> local testing doesn't work any more. I assume install fixes that since you
> reported that ntpq worked.
>
> In particular, tests/options-tester.sh says things like:
>
> VERSION: ntpd ntpsec-0.9.7+1444 20
The permissions on the stuff in ntpclients had the execute bit removed so
local testing doesn't work any more. I assume install fixes that since you
reported that ntpq worked.
In particular, tests/options-tester.sh says things like:
VERSION: ntpd ntpsec-0.9.7+1444 2017-09-26T09:54:52Z
VERSION:
I previously turned down merging Fred Wright's PYTHONPATH-elimination
change as a potential destabilizer, but then heard from Hal that
Fedora and FreeBSD actually *do* have the problem it addresses. (I've
never seen it under Ubuntu, which is why I didn't know.)
Given that, we're out of happy choi
Hal Murray :
> > And I would so regard it if [setting PYTHONPATH] were ever required on
> > Linux or FreeBSD. I have had no report of this.
>
> It's required on Fedora. I set it up ages ago. I think that was the
>
> I get the same on FreeBSD.
Well, shit. That changes things.
Now we have to
Hal Murray :
> > but dropping this in the day before release
>
> I was planning to make a scan through the documentation.
>
> Is there anything else that you think would be a better use of my time?
Not offhand. That sounds like a good one.
--
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> but dropping this in the day before release
I was planning to make a scan through the documentation.
Is there anything else that you think would be a better use of my time?
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> I will audit them, but dropping this in the day before release doesn't just
> seem like asking for trouble, it seems like screaming WE WANT TO EMBARRASS
> OURSELVES.
Then put it on the known glitch list and fix it in 1.x
> And I would so regard it if this were ever required on Linux or FreeB
Fred Wright via devel :
> > Plus these are most likely too late for 1.0. We are in the final
> > testing phases now.
>
> I think requiring users to set PYTHONPATH to run the tools should be
> considered a show stopper for a 1.0 release.
And I would so regard it if this were ever required on Linu
Daniele Nicolodi via devel :
> Delivering a 1.0 release that requires fiddling with PYTHONPATH to use
> the application would make the project look like it is run by amateurs.
> I think that is not the impression you want to give.
I'm sensitive to this issue. PYTHONPATH fiddling is never required
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Gary E. Miller via devel wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 20:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
> Fred Wright via devel wrote:
>
> > 1) Waf misuses get_python_lib() in a way that often gets the wrong
> > result, with the effect of installing the libraries in a location
> > where Python doesn't lo
Fred Wright via devel writes:
> But it can't "filter" the overall offset - it has no way to know what it
> is.
I never claimed that it does. I lack an absolute time reference anyway
and have yet to splurge for a good enough frequency normal, so at the
moment all I care about is getting the three
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