[seL4] Re: seL4 vs QNX and Linux benchmarks

2024-04-18 Thread Demi Marie Obenour
On 4/19/24 02:45, Gernot Heiser via Devel wrote: > On 19 Apr 2024, at 14:00, Andrew Warkentin wrote: >> >> Somehow I said Send()/Recv()/Reply() when I meant Call()/Recv()/Send() >> (MCS of course doesn't even have a distinct Reply() function). > > the correct syscall to use is ReplyWait(): > > R

[seL4] Re: seL4 vs QNX and Linux benchmarks

2024-04-18 Thread Gernot Heiser via Devel
On 19 Apr 2024, at 14:00, Andrew Warkentin wrote: > > Somehow I said Send()/Recv()/Reply() when I meant Call()/Recv()/Send() > (MCS of course doesn't even have a distinct Reply() function). the correct syscall to use is ReplyWait(): Recv(…); while (1) { ReplyWait(…); } Es per my blog:

[seL4] Re: seL4 vs QNX and Linux benchmarks

2024-04-18 Thread Andrew Warkentin
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 8:31 PM Gernot Heiser via Devel wrote: > > I’m not completely sure what you’re actually measuring here (actually I’m > totally unsure > what your setup really is, I can’t make sense of the above description in > terms of > what the seL4 system is doing). > But measuring p

[seL4] Re: seL4 vs QNX and Linux benchmarks

2024-04-18 Thread Gernot Heiser via Devel
On 18 Apr 2024, at 23:55, Andrew Warkentin wrote: > > Somebody in the Zoom call the other day (IIRC it was Gernot) said that > seL4 IPC is considerably faster than QNX IPC, but it seems that QNX is > somehow faster in a simple benchmarking experiment in which a client > repeatedly sends messages

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Demi Marie Obenour
On 4/18/24 05:34, Gernot Heiser via Devel wrote: > On 18 Apr 2024, at 19:18, Hugo V.C. wrote: >> >> "A web browser is a good example of this. The number of security >> domains is at least the number of origins in use, which can be >> extremely large. Furthermore, some origins might be CPU-

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Demi Marie Obenour
On 4/18/24 07:12, Gernot Heiser via Devel wrote: > On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:38, Hugo V.C. wrote: > > The challenge that I probably didn't expressed correctly, is to integrate > seL4 on top of other dynamic systems (in example to virtualize a browser), as > seL4 needs to know in advance how much me

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Hugo V.C.
"Running seL4 in any way other than on bare metal makes no sense whatsoever." There are scenarios where it makes sense. The power of seL4 is isolation guarantee. That is, software running virtualized on top of seL4 can't escape from seL4. This means it can be used to safely run a web browser (virt

[seL4] seL4 vs QNX and Linux benchmarks

2024-04-18 Thread Andrew Warkentin
Somebody in the Zoom call the other day (IIRC it was Gernot) said that seL4 IPC is considerably faster than QNX IPC, but it seems that QNX is somehow faster in a simple benchmarking experiment in which a client repeatedly sends messages to a bit-bucket server, using the TSC to determine timing. I'

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread David Barrass
On 18/04/24 12:12, Gernot Heiser via Devel wrote: > On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:38, Hugo V.C. wrote: > > The challenge that I probably didn't expressed correctly, is to integrate > seL4 on top of other dynamic systems (in example to virtualize a browser), as > seL4 needs to know in advance how much m

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Gernot Heiser via Devel
On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:38, Hugo V.C. wrote: The challenge that I probably didn't expressed correctly, is to integrate seL4 on top of other dynamic systems (in example to virtualize a browser), as seL4 needs to know in advance how much memory will have available... Running seL4 on bare metal is

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Hugo V.C.
"All this is a matter for user mode. " Well... in seL4. In standard OSs (Windows, Linux...) this is a matter of kernel mode. And here is the party. Of course if you use seL4 as TCB then you can partition whatever you want on top. The challenge that I probably didn't expressed correctly, is to in

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Gernot Heiser via Devel
On 18 Apr 2024, at 19:18, Hugo V.C. wrote: > > "A web browser is a good example of this. The number of security > domains is at least the number of origins in use, which can be > extremely large. Furthermore, some origins might be CPU-intensive." > > Yes. That's the challenge when you tr

[seL4] Re: Question about LionsOS

2024-04-18 Thread Hugo V.C.
"A web browser is a good example of this. The number of security domains is at least the number of origins in use, which can be extremely large. Furthermore, some origins might be CPU-intensive." Yes. That's the challenge when you try to use a solution aimed to static systems for dynami