DCat version 0.005

2009-05-11 Thread Steve Teale
Did a makeover of the ASD reader/parser. Should now be more robust. Made some spaec modifications as a result. Fixed some bugs. Added a general-purpose message file to make event-logging work sensibly. Download at http:\\www.britseyeview.com\dcat\.

Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Is this a good idea?

Re: Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
Walter Bright wrote: Is this a good idea? Yes. Although, D.current and D.next or something along those lines, seems to me better than D1 and D2 (there is reason to believe there will be a D3 in the future). -- Simen

Re: Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:guafob$1uq...@digitalmars.com... Is this a good idea? I don't think so. Not all discussion is specific to D1 or D2.

Re: Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Derek Parnell
On Mon, 11 May 2009 17:26:54 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: Is this a good idea? Leave digitalmars.D as it is and just add digitalmars.D.future I suppose you could also add digitalmars.D.v1 for discussion just about that edition of D. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell

Re: Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Jesse Phillips
On Mon, 11 May 2009 20:43:27 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:guafob$1uq...@digitalmars.com... Is this a good idea? I don't think so. Not all discussion is specific to D1 or D2. I looks to me that Walter is thinking of having

Re: Split digitalmars.D newsgroup into .D and .D2 newsgroups?

2009-05-11 Thread Jarrett Billingsley
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: Is this a good idea? My gut reaction is 'yes'. But what would be left on .D without the hundred-post threads about ranges? There really _isn't_ that much conversation about D1, and most of it probably belongs on

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread hasen
Nick Sabalausky wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote in message news:gu89ev$jq...@digitalmars.com... hasen wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Jesse Phillips wrote: It looks to me that Walter's points aren't about convincing people to use it, but to show that you are using

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread hasen
Jesse Phillips wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 04:48:16 +0200, Saaa wrote: So, what language do you use? D Ok.. why? Just keep your answers simple... It compiles to machine code. Why not C++ It is safer, less complex Let the person interested probe for answers they want answers to. I know

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread grauzone
hasen wrote: Jesse Phillips wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 04:48:16 +0200, Saaa wrote: So, what language do you use? D Ok.. why? Just keep your answers simple... It compiles to machine code. Why not C++ It is safer, less complex Let the person interested probe for answers they want

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Frank Benoit
Robert Fraser schrieb: I'm going to be in Munich from June 24-27, Venice June 28-July 1, Rome July 2-3, and Frankfurt on July 4, if there are any D users in the area who want to meet up. Like your typical American, I can only speak English, though ;-P (I might be able to manage some

Re: Plotting Using PLPlot

2009-05-11 Thread BLS
dsimcha wrote: It seems like there's substantial interest in this. Please give me some use cases, i.e. what would you personally use this for, and what do you foresee others using it for, so I can start thinking about what the API should be. I need a wide variety of use cases because, if I

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On Mon, 11 May 2009 04:37:20 +0200, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: Robert Fraser wrote: BCS wrote: Noch ein Bier bitte! No Beer! Why would you ever need to say that? You wouldn't. Noch ein means Another one! I don't think No Beer! has a German translation. I tried it

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Consider: uint fun(); int gun(); ... int[] a = new int[5]; a[fun] = gun; Which should be evaluated first, fun() or gun()? arra[i] = arrb[i++]; arra[i++] = arrb[i]; I'm not sure that such dependences are good code. By stating a definite order between lvalue and

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Walter Bright wrote: BCS wrote: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: let me guess: Ein Bier bitte! Beer! Noch ein Bier bitte! No Beer! More Beer! Wo ist der WC? To much Beer! Beer is the same in all languages!

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Frank Benoit wrote: Robert Fraser schrieb: I'm going to be in Munich from June 24-27, Venice June 28-July 1, Rome July 2-3, and Frankfurt on July 4, if there are any D users in the area who want to meet up. Like your typical American, I can only speak English, though ;-P (I might be able to

Rebuild [Descent]

2009-05-11 Thread Dalin Sade
Everytime I try to configure Descent (or Eclipse) to compile programs with rebuild, I always get an error message that pops up when I try to compile. Variable ${project_loc} references empty selection, same with ${resource_loc}. Help?

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Nick Sabalausky wrote: I think The 'if-others-are-doing-it-then-it-*must*-be-right' Fallacy is probably a much more accurate term for social proof. I realize social proof is the typical term for it, but calling it that just seems like trying to call the ad hominem fallacy associative proof.

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
hasen wrote: Like: if everyone here uses buzz words and jargon like ad hominem then I better learn this jargon to be considered smart. Hell, I always thought they only google them up when needed!

Rebuild [Descent]

2009-05-11 Thread Dalin Sade
Everytime I try to configure Descent (or Eclipse) to compile programs with rebuild, I always get an error message that pops up when I try to compile. Variable ${project_loc} references empty selection, same with ${resource_loc}. Help?

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On Mon, 11 May 2009 11:54:45 +0200, Georg Wrede georg.wr...@iki.fi wrote: Walter Bright wrote: BCS wrote: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: let me guess: Ein Bier bitte! Beer! Noch ein Bier bitte! No Beer! More Beer!

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Olli Aalto
Georg Wrede wrote: Walter Bright wrote: BCS wrote: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: let me guess: Ein Bier bitte! Beer! Noch ein Bier bitte! No Beer! More Beer! Wo ist der WC? To much Beer! Beer is the same in

Re: Iterators Must Go

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Sat, 09 May 2009 12:40:34 -0400, Michel Fortin michel.for...@michelf.com wrote: On 2009-05-09 10:45:05 -0400, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com said: STL iterators can be used for more than just iteration. They also serve as cursors, or pointers to specific elements. If you

Re: Iterators Must Go

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Sat, 09 May 2009 22:10:22 -0400, Rainer Deyke rain...@eldwood.com wrote: dsimcha wrote: == Quote from Rainer Deyke (rain...@eldwood.com)'s article Although I like ranges, it looks to me like there are a couple of operations that would difficult to implement without iterators or some

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Michel Fortin
On 2009-05-11 05:49:01 -0400, Georg Wrede georg.wr...@iki.fi said: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Consider: uint fun(); int gun(); ... int[] a = new int[5]; a[fun] = gun; Which should be evaluated first, fun() or gun()? arra[i] = arrb[i++]; arra[i++] = arrb[i]; I'm not sure that such

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Sat, 09 May 2009 19:15:59 -0400, Derek Parnell de...@psych.ward wrote: On Sat, 09 May 2009 11:43:09 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Consider: uint fun(); int gun(); ... int[] a = new int[5]; a[fun] = gun; Which should be evaluated first, fun() or gun()? It's a rather arbitrary

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Mon, 11 May 2009 07:34:38 -0400, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: For example: mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; if evaluating right to left, this looks like: 1. calculate mydic.length, store it in register A. 2. lookup mydic[z], if it doesn't exist, add it.

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Manfred Nowak
Michel Fortin wrote: arra[i++] = arrb[j]; // how can the compiler issue an error for this? assert( i != j); -manfred

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Tomas Lindquist Olsen, el 9 de mayo a las 15:55 me escribiste: The main feeling I've come to settle on during the soon two years I've spent with LDC, is: we need a new frontend! D1 and D2 both have these problems, and they're not going away by themselves. Are you saying Dlang is comming? 8-)~

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Olli Aalto wrote: Georg Wrede wrote: Walter Bright wrote: BCS wrote: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: let me guess: Ein Bier bitte! Beer! Noch ein Bier bitte! No Beer! More Beer! Wo ist der WC? To much Beer!

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Michiel Helvensteijn
Consider that mathematically speaking, an array is a function. And an assignment to an array element actually changes the function. A[i] = E; is actually the same as A = A[E/i];, where the right-hand side reads: A where i yields E (notation not to be confused with division). It is formally

When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Stewart Gordon
All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. There are 15 issues nominated as d1.0blocker, of which 7* are still outstanding, including two trackers having 39 dependencies between them. * Well, 8 if you include 691, fixed only for D2.

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Jason House wrote: Michel Fortin Wrote: On 2009-05-11 05:49:01 -0400, Georg Wrede georg.wr...@iki.fi said: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Consider: uint fun(); int gun(); ... int[] a = new int[5]; a[fun] = gun; Which should be evaluated first, fun() or gun()? arra[i] = arrb[i++]; arra[i++]

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 08:20:07 -0400, Manfred Nowak svv1...@hotmail.com wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: arra[i++] = arrb[j]; // how can the compiler issue an error for this? assert( i != j); -manfred That is not a compiler error, it is an

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Jarrett Billingsley
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: 4) No Beer, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow. (OTOH... *Lots More Beer!*) I know al about that one.

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Steven Schveighoffer wrote: For example: mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; I distinctly remember Walter discouraging chained assignments in the doccs, already in the very early versions of D.

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Vincenzo Ampolo
Robert Fraser wrote: Rome July 2-3 If you will be in Milan (500KM from Rome) let me know :)

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Ary Borenszweig
Stewart Gordon wrote: All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. There are 15 issues nominated as d1.0blocker, of which 7* are still outstanding, including two trackers having 39 dependencies between them. * Well, 8 if you include 691, fixed only for D2.

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread dsimcha
== Quote from Ary Borenszweig (a...@esperanto.org.ar)'s article Stewart Gordon wrote: All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. There are 15 issues nominated as d1.0blocker, of which 7* are still outstanding, including two trackers having 39 dependencies

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Ary Borenszweig
dsimcha wrote: == Quote from Ary Borenszweig (a...@esperanto.org.ar)'s article Stewart Gordon wrote: All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. There are 15 issues nominated as d1.0blocker, of which 7* are still outstanding, including two trackers having 39

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Mon, 11 May 2009 09:37:56 -0400, Georg Wrede georg.wr...@iki.fi wrote: Steven Schveighoffer wrote: For example: mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; I distinctly remember Walter discouraging chained assignments in the doccs, already in the very early versions of D.

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Jarrett Billingsley
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote:  mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; auto tmp = mydic.length; mydic[x] = tmp; mydic[y] = tmp; mydic[z] = tmp; ??? That sucks.  We have to remember, there are reasons why we stopped having to

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Mon, 11 May 2009 11:26:36 -0400, Jarrett Billingsley jarrett.billings...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote:  mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; auto tmp = mydic.length; mydic[x] = tmp; mydic[y] = tmp; mydic[z]

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Stewart Gordon
Ary Borenszweig wrote: snip excessive quote I think the major problem with this is that D2 has the same codebase as D1, so D2 will inherit most of it's bug, like forward references. snip Why's that a problem? AISI it's a benefit - DMD2 inherits DMD1's bug fixes, and to some degree vice

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Georg Wrede wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Consider: uint fun(); int gun(); ... int[] a = new int[5]; a[fun] = gun; Which should be evaluated first, fun() or gun()? arra[i] = arrb[i++]; arra[i++] = arrb[i]; I'm not sure that such dependences are good code.

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Georg Wrede wrote: If the programmer has introduced dependencies on the evaluation order, yes. But if he hasn't, then it will not introduce anything. If violations could be checked such that invalid code is rejected, your solution would work. With a[fun] = gun; a rewrite auto f =

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Jarrett Billingsley wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: 4) No Beer, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow. (OTOH... *Lots More Beer!*) I know al about that one. Giving a presentation while hung over has got to be a terrible experience!

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Luís Marques
Stewart Gordon wrote: All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. As someone who as tried to use D in non-hobby projects, I want to add that I reasonably agree with the sentiment. When D1 was declared finished I thought it meant it would progress to a stable

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Georg Wrede wrote: If the programmer has introduced dependencies on the evaluation order, yes. But if he hasn't, then it will not introduce anything. If violations could be checked such that invalid code is rejected, your solution would work. With a[fun] =

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Walter Bright wrote: Jarrett Billingsley wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: 4) No Beer, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow. (OTOH... *Lots More Beer!*) I know al about that one. Giving a presentation while hung over has got to be a terrible experience!

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Ary Borenszweig
Stewart Gordon wrote: Ary Borenszweig wrote: snip excessive quote I think the major problem with this is that D2 has the same codebase as D1, so D2 will inherit most of it's bug, like forward references. snip Why's that a problem? AISI it's a benefit - DMD2 inherits DMD1's bug fixes, and to

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread BLS
Ary Borenszweig wrote: dsimcha wrote: == Quote from Ary Borenszweig (a...@esperanto.org.ar)'s article Stewart Gordon wrote: All this D2 work seems to have detracted from the task of finishing off D1. There are 15 issues nominated as d1.0blocker, of which 7* are still outstanding, including

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: I just hope one day in a near future we have D support in the tools I use daily to develop as good as C++ so I can have a chance to convince my boss to be able to use it at work =) Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool developers

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Ameer Armaly
Leandro Lucarella llu...@gmail.com wrote in message news:20090509161148.ga23...@homero.springfield.home... The Tango vs. Phobos is still a *BIG* issue for D1. I think don't addressing that is a huge error. It's only hurting D1 and preventing its adoption. Yes. This is the showstopper for me

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Luís Marques wrote: When D1 was declared finished I thought it meant it would progress to a stable state, with nearly all non-minor problems fixed and a large set of companion libraries. I'm afraid I don't see that happening at an animating rate. D1 regularly gets around 20 bug fixes a

Re: Rebuild [Descent]

2009-05-11 Thread Dalin Sade
Jacob Carlborg Wrote: Dalin Sade wrote: Everytime I try to configure Descent (or Eclipse) to compile programs with rebuild, I always get an error message that pops up when I try to compile. Variable ${project_loc} references empty selection, same with ${resource_loc}. Help?

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread hasen
grauzone wrote: hasen wrote: Jesse Phillips wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 04:48:16 +0200, Saaa wrote: So, what language do you use? D Ok.. why? Just keep your answers simple... It compiles to machine code. Why not C++ It is safer, less complex Let the person interested probe for answers

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Walter Bright, el 11 de mayo a las 11:46 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: I just hope one day in a near future we have D support in the tools I use daily to develop as good as C++ so I can have a chance to convince my boss to be able to use it at work =) Hoping is one thing, but

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.utrtl8x7eav...@steves.networkengines.com... On Mon, 11 May 2009 09:37:56 -0400, Georg Wrede georg.wr...@iki.fi wrote: Steven Schveighoffer wrote: For example: mydic[x] = mydic[y] = mydic[z] = mydic.length; I distinctly

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Michiel Helvensteijn
Nick Sabalausky wrote: I was giving a little bit of thought to assignment chaining the other day. Unless someone can point out why I'm wrong, I think some of the functional-style stuff we've been getting into can make assignment chaining obsolete. Hypothetical example: [mydic[x],

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Frits van Bommel
Leandro Lucarella wrote: GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so I transcribe the comment from GDB): -- For a patch this size we would need copyright assignments from all the authors of the

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Michiel Helvensteijn m.helvensteijn.rem...@gmail.com wrote in message news:gua0ub$130...@digitalmars.com... Nick Sabalausky wrote: I was giving a little bit of thought to assignment chaining the other day. Unless someone can point out why I'm wrong, I think some of the functional-style

Re: Rebuild [Descent]

2009-05-11 Thread albatroz
Dalin Sade wrote: Everytime I try to configure Descent (or Eclipse) to compile programs with rebuild, I always get an error message that pops up when I try to compile. Variable ${project_loc} references empty selection, same with ${resource_loc}. Help? Try to select the main file you want

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool developers is much more effective! Sure, but people already done that and got ignore. I'm just glad you only overlooked that mail and you're willing to help to iron out any licensing issue. I'm

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Ameer Armaly wrote: Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk away from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two runtimes is not only tolerable but acceptable as normal has and will continue to hurt D1. We have Phobos, the official runtime and then

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
dsimcha wrote: == Quote from Georg Wrede (georg.wr...@iki.fi)'s article Luís Marques wrote: I guess that's the point. Who currently thinks that D1 is production-ready, or is consistently getting there, and how long till it gets there? Already *before* D1 I wrote a non-trivial application,

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Georg Wrede wrote: That day, there will not be a single person on Earth who knows such changes. Just like when we started on D2, nobody could have had any notion of how D2 looks today. And we still have an unpredictable amount of changes ahead of us in D2. For example, who can predict if

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Derek Parnell
On Mon, 11 May 2009 16:03:39 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: I was giving a little bit of thought to assignment chaining the other day. Unless someone can point out why I'm wrong, I think some of the functional-style stuff we've been getting into can make assignment chaining obsolete.

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Jarrett Billingsley
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: Jarrett Billingsley wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: 4) No Beer, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow. (OTOH... *Lots More Beer!*) I know al about that one. Giving a

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Ameer Armaly
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:gua3u3$19c...@digitalmars.com... Ameer Armaly wrote: Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk away from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two runtimes is not only tolerable but

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Derek Parnell
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:43:58 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: Georg Wrede wrote: That day, there will not be a single person on Earth who knows such changes. Just like when we started on D2, nobody could have had any notion of how D2 looks today. And we still have an unpredictable amount of

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Jason House
Ameer Armaly Wrote: Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:gua3u3$19c...@digitalmars.com... Ameer Armaly wrote: Yes. This is the showstopper for me and what caused me to quietly walk away from D to begin with. In my opinion the fact that having two runtimes

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Robert Fraser
Walter Bright wrote: Jarrett Billingsley wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: 4) No Beer, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow. (OTOH... *Lots More Beer!*) I know al about that one. Giving a presentation while hung over has got to be a terrible experience!

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Derek Parnell wrote: D1 is not complete. That has nothing to do with the bugs it still contains. It is not complete because there is documented functionality for which no implementation has yet been attempted. This assumes that the documentation is complete and accurate. The D-Team should be

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Derek Parnell wrote: The D-Team should be dedicating resources to ensuring that the D1 implementation and D1 documentation are in alignment with each other. By dedicating, I mean that is all that this D1-subteam of the D-Team work on - no D2 work at all. Any D1 fixes that need to be

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Walter Bright wrote: I also fail to understand this perception that D1 is abandoned. Every month an update is released for it that fixes a load of problems. D1 has led the way in ports to other platforms. Because this news group's name is not D2. Folks come here, and see no mention of D1 for

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Walter Bright, el 11 de mayo a las 14:03 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Hoping is one thing, but submitting patches, bug reports, etc. to the tool developers is much more effective! Sure, but people already done that and got ignore. I'm just glad you only overlooked that mail and

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Frits van Bommel, el 11 de mayo a las 22:15 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: GDB people have spoken (I don't see you subscribed to the bug report so I transcribe the comment from GDB): -- For a patch this size we

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Graham St Jack
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:11:53 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: Luís Marques wrote: When D1 was declared finished I thought it meant it would progress to a stable state, with nearly all non-minor problems fixed and a large set of companion libraries. I'm afraid I don't see that happening at an

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Isn't the demangle code taken from DMDFE? It didn't look like it, especially since the DMDFE doesn't have a demangler in it! The one in Phobos is explicitly listed as Public Domain.

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Georg Wrede wrote: From a (go ahead, call it shrewd and marketing liar, I won't mind) perspective, _the_ newsgroup should be called D and it should contain D1 discussions. And then there should be a less conspicuous NG called future releases discussions, which would be D2. Sounds like a

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Ameer Armaly wrote: It has been bashed out for D2. Doing such changes to D1 will break everyone's D1 code, which destroys its mission of being stable. Really? I was under the impression that Tango will be ported to D2 to continue the battle of standard libs but if I'm mistaken, then it's a lot

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread grauzone
Walter Bright wrote: Derek Parnell wrote: D1 is not complete. That has nothing to do with the bugs it still contains. It is not complete because there is documented functionality for which no implementation has yet been attempted. This assumes that the documentation is complete and accurate.

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Jason House wrote: There really is only three reasons I'm aware of that stop D2 Tango from existing today: [...] 2. There are bugs that limit how easily Tango can be ported to D2 I've heard this now and then, along with a bugzilla number or two. I've fixed every one those problems

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
grauzone wrote: Everyone, you just wasted your time reading this posting. Bestimmt. Andrei

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Trass3r
Walter Bright schrieb: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: Ein Bier bitte! Noch ein Bier bitte! Wo ist der WC? :D good old cliches. but well you're right. we simply got the best beer in the world ;) Though it's das WC.

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread grauzone
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: grauzone wrote: Everyone, you just wasted your time reading this posting. Bestimmt. Reading and posting on the group is a great waste of time in general, so I hope it doesn't bother you too much. Andrei

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Derek Parnell
On Mon, 11 May 2009 16:25:24 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: Derek Parnell wrote: D1 is not complete. That has nothing to do with the bugs it still contains. It is not complete because there is documented functionality for which no implementation has yet been attempted. This assumes that the

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Trass3r
Simen Kjaeraas schrieb: I don't think No Beer! has a German translation. I tried it with Google's translator and got a server error. As a native Norwegian[1], I feel confident in stating that No beer! would be Kein Bier!, Exactly. and I believe No beer for me, thank you, I'm driving.

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Georg Wrede
Trass3r wrote: Walter Bright schrieb: No problem. In Germany, at least, the only German necessary in order to get along famously is: Ein Bier bitte! Noch ein Bier bitte! Wo ist der WC? :D good old cliches. but well you're right. we simply got the best beer in the world ;) Though it's das

Re: D users in Munich, Rome, Venice, or Frankfurt?

2009-05-11 Thread Trass3r
Georg Wrede schrieb: :D good old cliches. but well you're right. we simply got the best beer in the world ;) Though it's das WC. That's a toilet for pets. Der WC is men's room, die WC is the powder room. Nope. There's no differentiation. But die Toilette or das Klo is more common anyway.

Re: Rebuild [Descent]

2009-05-11 Thread Dalin Sade
albatroz Wrote: Dalin Sade wrote: Everytime I try to configure Descent (or Eclipse) to compile programs with rebuild, I always get an error message that pops up when I try to compile. Variable ${project_loc} references empty selection, same with ${resource_loc}. Help? Try to

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Derek Parnell wrote: Ok, so what is stopping me using D1? Below are some off-the-cuff ideas and it may be that I'm mistaken in my beliefs, so take that into consideration. * I like what D2 has to offer, so I'll wait for that. I'm not in a hurry to use D as there is no current or approaching

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Jason House
Walter Bright Wrote: Jason House wrote: There really is only three reasons I'm aware of that stop D2 Tango from existing today: [...] 2. There are bugs that limit how easily Tango can be ported to D2 I've heard this now and then, along with a bugzilla number or two. I've fixed

Re: When will D1 be finished?

2009-05-11 Thread Derek Parnell
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:28:22 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Derek Parnell wrote: The D-Team should be dedicating resources to ensuring that the D1 implementation and D1 documentation are in alignment with each other. By dedicating, I mean that is all that this D1-subteam of the D-Team

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread dsimcha
== Quote from Jason House (jason.james.ho...@gmail.com)'s article Walter Bright Wrote: Jason House wrote: There really is only three reasons I'm aware of that stop D2 Tango from existing today: [...] 2. There are bugs that limit how easily Tango can be ported to D2 I've

More PLPlot stuff

2009-05-11 Thread dsimcha
So I've started the PLPlot project by building the original version and playing around with it and... That's where the trouble begins. PLPlot has an amazingly complicated Rube Goldberg build system. After fighting with it for a good hour or two, I finally got it to build. It output a bunch of

Re: What's the current state of D?

2009-05-11 Thread Walter Bright
Ameer Armaly wrote: I see. What about the actual standard library bits for common tasks like file I/O, strings, date and time, filesystem manipulation, etc. My main gripe is having two regularly accepted libraries that do the same extremely common functions; it makes us look unpolished,

Re: Promoting D

2009-05-11 Thread Jesse Phillips
On Mon, 11 May 2009 00:25:52 -0600, hasen wrote: Jesse Phillips wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 04:48:16 +0200, Saaa wrote: So, what language do you use? D Ok.. why? Just keep your answers simple... It compiles to machine code. Why not C++ It is safer, less complex Let the person

Re: assignment: left-to-right or right-to-left evaluation?

2009-05-11 Thread Rainer Deyke
Nick Sabalausky wrote: True, that's why I replied again and suggested something like: [mydic[x], mydic[y], mydic[z]].each = mydic.length; [[mydic[x], mydic[y], mydic[z]].each].each = mydic.length; [[[mydic[x], mydic[y], mydic[z]].each].each].each = mydic.length; mydic[x], mydic[y],

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