On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 17:11:07 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
2. was the motivation for ADL (aka "Koenig Lookup")
There was no way I was going to put ADL into D :-)
---
// lib.d
struct Struct {}
// more.d
import lib.d
int front(Struct s) {}
void popFront(ref Struct s) {}
// main.d
import
On 12/10/2013 4:28 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
I think this position is too restrictive and just wrong. If D is really
aiming to stop internal DSLs using operators then D is missing the whole
point of abstraction. But as noted I want code not just waffle to
further this discussion.
Looking forward
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 08:06:35 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:
Having read all that though, one could argue that having "uni"
is *even worst* than "unicode", as it violates both:
a) Use the ® symbol to indicate that the Unicode Mark
b) Do not alter its spelling
I don't care much about uni v
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 12:06 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
[…]
I have been waiting to answer this as I wanted to do some experiment
first. However circumstances mean that this playing will have to wait
till the Christmas break. I thought I should put a place holder message
in though to mark that a re
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 15:59:08 UTC, Don wrote:
What I said was negligible was:
"The advantage of AST macros is that the compiler doesn't
need to re-lex and re-parse the result."
It's a negligible benefit because most of the time is spent in
the semantic pass (which can take unbounde
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 14:18:46 UTC, Chris Cain wrote:
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 09:25:30 UTC, Don wrote:
I think that is of negligible benefit. There's not a whole of
difference between manipulating an AST, vs manipulating text,
and I'm confident that the time taken to do that i
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 09:25:30 UTC, Don wrote:
I think that is of negligible benefit. There's not a whole of
difference between manipulating an AST, vs manipulating text,
and I'm confident that the time taken to do that is always
going to be far more than the time required to lex and
On 12/05/2013 10:25 AM, Don wrote:
But IMHO there's a lot more to be gained from improvements to compile
time reflection.
In particular, improvements to the specification of its semantics. :)
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 12/3/2013 7:49 AM, eles wrote:
You mean std.uni? Seriously, let's change that name into
std.unicode.
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
no.
http://www.erlang.org/doc/man/unicode.html
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 08:17:01 UTC, Jacob Carlborg
wrote:
On 2013-12-04 19:55, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
I'll just add a bit of my experience on this.
The coolest side of things is that you get to code a
mini-compiler that
has a very nice backend - D code. More then that you get
opti
On 2013-12-05 05:09, Shammah Chancellor wrote:
On 2013-12-04 03:23:59 +, bearophile said:
Joshua Niehus:
This would make for a good blog post/wiki article.Does one already exist?
If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think you can write
something like:
@setExpr(a ∪ (b ∩ c));
On 2013-12-04 19:55, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
I'll just add a bit of my experience on this.
The coolest side of things is that you get to code a mini-compiler that
has a very nice backend - D code. More then that you get optimizer and
such for free. Then you only do the fun stuff - your frontend
On Thursday, 5 December 2013 at 06:04:20 UTC, Marco Leise wrote:
Am Thu, 05 Dec 2013 06:16:14 +0100
schrieb "Kapps" :
On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 17:21:24 UTC, Luís Marques
wrote:
> On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright
> wrote:
>> "unicode" is trademarked and could c
Am Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:23:07 +0100
schrieb "monarch_dodra" :
> On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:09:52 UTC, Ary Borenszweig
> wrote:
> > On 12/3/13 4:53 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> >> On 12/3/13 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
> >
Am Thu, 05 Dec 2013 06:16:14 +0100
schrieb "Kapps" :
> On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 17:21:24 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright
> > wrote:
> >> "unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
> >> no.
> >
> > That seems unli
On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 17:21:24 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
no.
That seems unlikely. Also, it's not that different from
std.windows, std.linux, etc.
From h
On 2013-12-04 03:23:59 +, bearophile said:
Joshua Niehus:
This would make for a good blog post/wiki article. Does one already exist?
If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think you can write
something like:
@setExpr(a ∪ (b ∩ c));
The main difference is that the compiler
On 12/04/2013 06:11 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
On 12/4/2013 5:50 AM, Jakob Ovrum wrote:
The point is that D does not have operator overloading for in-built
types. The
unnecessary one is the global operator overload you suggest, as it is
more
intrusive than `opBinaryRight`.
The bad thing about th
04-Dec-2013 20:22, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
On 12/4/13 7:06 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 04:23:59AM +0100, bearophile wrote:
Joshua Niehus:
This would make for a good blog post/wiki article. Does one
already exist?
If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think
On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 17:21:24 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
no.
That seems unlikely. Also, it's not that different from
std.windows, std.linux, etc.
Also,
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
no.
That seems unlikely. Also, it's not that different from
std.windows, std.linux, etc.
On 12/4/2013 5:50 AM, Jakob Ovrum wrote:
The point is that D does not have operator overloading for in-built types. The
unnecessary one is the global operator overload you suggest, as it is more
intrusive than `opBinaryRight`.
The bad thing about the global operator overloading is that it:
1.
On 12/4/2013 7:27 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
Of course, it's not the *point* of DSLs to be distinct from the host
language, but it's a good idea for it to be. Operator overloading that
turns + and * into something completely unlike their usual meanings
violates the principle of least surprise. A CTFE-
On 12/4/13 7:06 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 04:23:59AM +0100, bearophile wrote:
Joshua Niehus:
This would make for a good blog post/wiki article. Does one
already exist?
If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think you can
write something like:
@setExpr(a ∪ (b
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 21:12:36 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
On 12/3/2013 7:49 AM, eles wrote:
The Unicode Consortium Name and Trademark Usage Policy:
http://www.unicode.org/policies/logo_policy.html
Yeah, bad.
D allows
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:42:01 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
Am 03.12.2013 16:49, schrieb eles:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 14:25:50 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:41:40 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
It is
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:20:40 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:41:46 UTC, Andrei
Alexandrescu wrote:
Arguably, optional () and the mess involved around fall into
the category of opaque and unclear syntax.
yes, that was a trap
On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 08:44:17AM +0100, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2013-12-03 21:06, Walter Bright wrote:
>
> >Embedded DSLs should be visually distinct, and D provides the ability
> >for that with string mixins and CTFE.
>
> The point of DSL's are to make a languages that work optimal and
> lo
On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 04:23:59AM +0100, bearophile wrote:
> Joshua Niehus:
>
> >This would make for a good blog post/wiki article. Does one
> >already exist?
>
> If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think you can
> write something like:
>
> @setExpr(a ∪ (b ∩ c));
>
> The main d
On Wednesday, 4 December 2013 at 13:39:32 UTC, Ary Borenszweig
wrote:
That's nice.
Of course, it's not needed if you overload "+" for the int type
to receive a complex.
The point is that D does not have operator overloading for
in-built types. The unnecessary one is the global operator
over
On 12/3/13 7:23 PM, monarch_dodra wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:09:52 UTC, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
On 12/3/13 4:53 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 12/3/13 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operator
On 2013-12-03 21:06, Walter Bright wrote:
Embedded DSLs should be visually distinct, and D provides the ability
for that with string mixins and CTFE.
The point of DSL's are to make a languages that work optimal and look
appropriate for the given domain. Not necessarily make it distinct from
Joshua Niehus:
This would make for a good blog post/wiki article. Does one
already exist?
If you have a AST macros like in Julia language, I think you can
write something like:
@setExpr(a ∪ (b ∩ c));
The main difference is that the compiler gives you a tree in the
macro to work on, inste
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 22:28:26 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
[snip] Then you can write:
Set a, b, c;
auto d = mixin(SetExpr!"a ∪ (b ∩ c)");
// The above line gets turned into:
// auto d = a.union(b.intersection(c));
// at compile-
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Brad Anderson wrote:
> On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:06:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> >On 12/3/2013 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
> >>Yes.
> >>
> >>a + b
> >>
> >>could be set union, logic and, string concatenation. The + is just a
> >>message to t
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:09:52 UTC, Ary Borenszweig
wrote:
On 12/3/13 4:53 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 12/3/13 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks
useless
in D. If you
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:56:24 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 12/3/2013 7:49 AM, eles wrote:
You mean std.uni? Seriously, let's change that name into
std.unicode.
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So,
no.
Huh...sure enough:
The Unicode Consortium Name and Tr
Am 03.12.2013 16:36, schrieb Jesse Phillips:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 09:46:27 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
Sadly plain C and C++ compilers are what most young developers know as
AOT compilers, hence the spread of slow compilation message.
--
Paulo
I don't think that is limited to young deve
Am 03.12.2013 16:49, schrieb eles:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 14:25:50 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:41:40 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
Maybe I've spent too much time with math at the uni. :)
You mean st
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 19:41:46 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On the other hand Walter has been adamantly against
configurable syntax (and talked me into that stance as well),
so D is immune from quite a few issues pointed by that rant. D
code is readable at least at surface level wit
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 20:06:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 12/3/2013 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
Yes.
a + b
could be set union, logic and, string concatenation. The + is
just a
message to the LHS object, it determines what to do. This is
the whole
basis for DSLs.
Using
On 12/3/13 4:53 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 12/3/13 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks useless
in D. If you have an operator '+' that should not be pronounced
'plus' you are do
On 12/2/2013 9:18 PM, Shammah Chancellor wrote:
There are some beasts who fix bugs really quickly in the frontend.
Yup, we have a couple of really prodigious contributors to the complex bits of
the front end.
rant/
With that said, I am finding though that a lot of the documentation on the
On 12/3/2013 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
Yes.
a + b
could be set union, logic and, string concatenation. The + is just a
message to the LHS object, it determines what to do. This is the whole
basis for DSLs.
Using operator overloading to create a DSL is just wrong. Part of the desig
On 12/3/2013 7:49 AM, eles wrote:
You mean std.uni? Seriously, let's change that name into std.unicode.
"unicode" is trademarked and could cause us some problems. So, no.
On 12/3/2013 11:41 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On the other hand Walter has been adamantly against configurable syntax (and
talked me into that stance as well), so D is immune from quite a few issues
pointed by that rant. D code is readable at least at surface level without
needing context.
A
On 12/3/13 4:41 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks useless
in D. If you have an operator '+' that should not be pronounced
'plus' you are doing it wrong.
Yes.
a + b
could be se
On 12/2/13 9:54 PM, Meta wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 03:06:20 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 00:36:32 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
I think he might not have liked D
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:41:40 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks
useless in D. If you have an operator '+' that should not be
pronounced 'plus' you are doing it wrong.
Yes.
eles:
You mean std.uni? Seriously, let's change that name into
std.unicode.
I think he meant "Unicorn".
Bye,
bearophile
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 14:25:50 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:41:40 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
Maybe I've spent too much time with math at the uni. :)
You mean std.uni? Seriously, let's change that
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 09:46:27 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
Sadly plain C and C++ compilers are what most young developers
know as AOT compilers, hence the spread of slow compilation
message.
--
Paulo
I don't think that is limited to young developers. The only
difference is that older d
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:18:32 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Martin O.:
we should do something about operators. I like James Ward's
idea to mandate an alphabetic alias for every operator - at
least people would know how to pronounce them then.<
Bye,
bearophile
This is what was basically d
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:41:40 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks
useless in D. If you have an operator '+' that should not be
pronounced 'plus' you are doing it wrong.
Yes.
On Tue, 2013-12-03 at 13:29 +0100, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
[…]
> Does scala have arbitrary operators like Haskell? Looks useless
> in D. If you have an operator '+' that should not be pronounced
> 'plus' you are doing it wrong.
Yes.
a + b
could be set union, logic and, string concatenat
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 12:18:32 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu:
Odersky's response and the subsequent thread are interesting,
too:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/scala-debate/153H3Ya4Nxk
An interesting idea:
Martin O.:
we should do something about ope
Andrei Alexandrescu:
Odersky's response and the subsequent thread are interesting,
too:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/scala-debate/153H3Ya4Nxk
An interesting idea:
Martin O.:
we should do something about operators. I like James Ward's idea
to mandate an alphabetic alias
The main issue is that many seem to think very simple languages
are the way to go, until they need to tackle complex problems
and end up modeling manuly what other languages offer for free.
Like code generation tools in Go to overcome templates, or
crazy macros in C to support OOP.
This can'
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 05:54:22 UTC, Meta wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 03:06:20 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 00:36:32 UTC, Andrei
Alexandrescu wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
I think he
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 03:06:20 UTC, Luís Marques wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 00:36:32 UTC, Andrei
Alexandrescu wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
I think he might not have liked D either:
This leads to ridiculous
On 12/02/2013 10:06 PM, "Luís Marques" " wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 00:36:32 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
I think he might not have liked D either:
No household is perfe
On 2013-12-03 03:01:12 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said:
On 12/2/13 6:49 PM, Shammah Chancellor wrote:
On 2013-12-03 00:36:28 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rx8r2/go_binary_sizes_are_growing_out_of_control/
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming
On Tuesday, 3 December 2013 at 00:36:32 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
I think he might not have liked D either:
This leads to ridiculous decisions such as using ~ to glue
handlers together in the flexib
On 12/2/13 6:49 PM, Shammah Chancellor wrote:
On 2013-12-03 00:36:28 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rx8r2/go_binary_sizes_are_growing_out_of_control/
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
And
On 2013-12-03 00:36:28 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rx8r2/go_binary_sizes_are_growing_out_of_control/
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
Andrei
I find this particularly interesting.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rx8r2/go_binary_sizes_are_growing_out_of_control/
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1rvltx/scala_1_would_not_program_again/#new
Andrei
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