On Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 16:42:38 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 04/18/2017 03:00 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
D would have the ability to have a nice container that would
do RAII
(for classes since for structs, __dtors are called
automatically)
That's just it, though. They are not.
On 04/18/2017 03:00 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
D would have the ability to have a nice container that would do RAII
(for classes since for structs, __dtors are called automatically)
That's just it, though. They are not. Not reliably.
Yah, clearly there's a problem with the language
On 04/18/2017 10:55 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Tue, 2017-04-18 at 09:23 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-
d wrote:
On 4/18/17 8:48 AM, prdan wrote:
Thanks, maybe I will write a blog post about my experiences also.
That would be great! Michael Parker may be of
On Tue, 2017-04-18 at 09:23 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-
d wrote:
> On 4/18/17 8:48 AM, prdan wrote:
> > Thanks, maybe I will write a blog post about my experiences also.
>
> That would be great! Michael Parker may be of help if you consider
> publishing in the official D Blog. --
On 4/18/17 8:48 AM, prdan wrote:
Thanks, maybe I will write a blog post about my experiences also.
That would be great! Michael Parker may be of help if you consider
publishing in the official D Blog. -- Andrei
On Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 12:22:10 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Cool, thanks for this work! However, a word of caution -
experiments ran on different CPUs can't count as comparable.
I didn't compare D times to numbers from benchmarks game site.
I've ran other languages on the same
On 18/04/2017 1:22 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 04/17/2017 10:57 PM, prdan wrote:
I've written multi-threaded regex-redux benchmark for D language and
made some tests. This is my first program written in D, I didn't know
much about D a week ago.
Here are the results for other languages:
On 04/17/2017 10:57 PM, prdan wrote:
I've written multi-threaded regex-redux benchmark for D language and
made some tests. This is my first program written in D, I didn't know
much about D a week ago.
Here are the results for other languages:
On Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 07:22:29 UTC, thedeemon wrote:
Which compiler did you use for D?
I've used newest LDC.
In benchmarks where some fixed amount of work should be done as
fast as possible low CPU usage is not a good sign, it just
means some cores were idle when they could really
On Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 07:22:29 UTC, thedeemon wrote:
In benchmarks where some fixed amount of work should be done as
fast as possible low CPU usage is not a good sign, it just
means some cores were idle when they could really be working.
Minor note: sometimes high CPU usage isn't good
On Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 02:57:59 UTC, prdan wrote:
I've written multi-threaded regex-redux benchmark for D
language and made some tests.
Nice!
Rust version 1.16 (newest stable)
GCC ver 4.9.2 (newest debian 8 stable)
Which compiler did you use for D?
C was the fastest (1.32) but used
D would have the ability to have a nice container that would do RAII
(for classes since for structs, __dtors are called automatically)
That's just it, though. They are not. Not reliably.
Shachar
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 22:44:52 UTC, Stanislav Blinov wrote:
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 21:20:42 UTC, Jerry wrote:
So what happens when the resource outlives the object's
lifetime.
Then RAII rule is violated.
That's exactly what is happening when you are using the
garbage collector.
I've written multi-threaded regex-redux benchmark for D language
and made some tests. This is my first program written in D, I
didn't know much about D a week ago.
Here are the results for other languages:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/regexredux.html
I have newer CPU than one
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 21:20:42 UTC, Jerry wrote:
So what happens when the resource outlives the object's
lifetime.
Then RAII rule is violated.
That's exactly what is happening when you are using the garbage
collector.
Correction, that is what *may* happen in some cases when you are
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 16:06:20 UTC, Stanislav Blinov wrote:
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 15:24:26 UTC, Jerry wrote:
It has everything to do with @nogc, if it isn't @nogc then it
is using the garbage collector and even if it is using
Destroy() it is still invoking the GC and something is
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 16:06:20 UTC, Stanislav Blinov wrote:
Yes, std.container does need quite a bit of love. That doesn't
mean that D doesn't have RAII or that it's RAII support is
somehow deficient.
Of course the reason it doesn't get more love is well-known here.
Walter and Andrei
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 15:24:26 UTC, Jerry wrote:
It has everything to do with @nogc, if it isn't @nogc then it
is using the garbage collector and even if it is using
Destroy() it is still invoking the GC and something is still
going to have to be freed by the GC, even if that class is
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 15:10:59 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 02:56:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
Okay, only one container, and happens to be most simple basic
one. The others aren't nogc and some of them are even classes.
Not only that, Array wasn't @nogc until about a
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 02:56:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
Okay, only one container, and happens to be most simple basic
one. The others aren't nogc and some of them are even classes.
Not only that, Array wasn't @nogc until about a month ago.
No idea what you mean about goal posts. Do you mean
On Monday, April 17, 2017 11:14:47 Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> scope(exit) is a much cleaner solution than a finally clause, but
> not as clean as RAII. If the language supports RAII, how come
> people are not using it?
Well, if you're talking managing memory, most folks just use
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 11:14:47 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 17:00:25 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
So we can say that D has buggy RAII. Claiming that D doesn't
have RAII is equally false.
To me, that's a basic misunderstanding of what RAII mean. RAII,
to me,
On Monday, 17 April 2017 at 11:14:47 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 17:00:25 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
So we can say that D has buggy RAII. Claiming that D doesn't
have RAII is equally false.
To me, that's a basic misunderstanding of what RAII mean. RAII,
to me,
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 17:00:25 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
So we can say that D has buggy RAII. Claiming that D doesn't
have RAII is equally false.
To me, that's a basic misunderstanding of what RAII mean. RAII,
to me, means you wrap your resource in a container, and then can
just go
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 22:18:51 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 18:36:30 UTC, Jerry wrote:
I wouldn't really call them RAII containers if they aren't
@nogc
Moving the goal posts again. Even still,
void main() @nogc
{
Array!int ai;
ai ~= 1;
On 4/16/17 12:05 PM, Stefan Koch wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 14:25:22 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 4/16/17 3:50 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14246
I'd raised the importance and urgency of this issue in the past.
Walter is really overloaded
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 18:36:30 UTC, Jerry wrote:
I wouldn't really call them RAII containers if they aren't @nogc
Moving the goal posts again. Even still,
void main() @nogc
{
Array!int ai;
ai ~= 1;
assert(ai.front == 1);
ai.reserve(10);
assert(ai.capacity == 10);
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 17:00:25 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
Semantic game. D actually has RAII.
And D does have RAII containers:
https://dlang.org/phobos/std_container.html
I wouldn't really call them RAII containers if they aren't @nogc,
and especially so if they aren't structs but
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 07:50:43 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
The first is that the language does not offer any RAII
containers out of the box. What it does provide is the
*ability* to create RAII containers. D supports RAII, but does
not actually have RAII.
Semantic game. D actually has
On Sun, 2017-04-16 at 16:09 +, Isaac Gouy via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>
[…]
> I wish the D community would stop using the benchmarks game as an
> excuse.
>
But you have a position of great power. People look at your game and if
a language isn't in it, it is assumed to be crap. You may not be
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 07:11:23 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 04:19:56 UTC, Joakim wrote:
came out tops if I weighted time, memory, and source code size
equally. Not always highest, as Free Pascal would sometimes
beat it, but D usually won.
You juggled the numbers
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 08:44:07 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
When anyone mentions the Compiler Shootout for the last 10
years, Isaac always pops up and says he won't put it on his
site. I wish he'd just go away.
I wish the D community would stop using the benchmarks game as an
excuse.
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 14:25:22 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 4/16/17 3:50 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14246
I'd raised the importance and urgency of this issue in the
past. Walter is really overloaded for the time being. Any
volunteer wants
On 4/16/17 3:50 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14246
I'd raised the importance and urgency of this issue in the past. Walter
is really overloaded for the time being. Any volunteer wants to look
into this now? -- Andrei
When anyone mentions the Compiler Shootout for the last 10 years, Isaac always
pops up and says he won't put it on his site. I wish he'd just go away.
On 4/16/2017 12:11 AM, Isaac Gouy wrote:
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 04:19:56 UTC, Joakim wrote:
came out tops if I weighted time, memory, and
On 11/04/17 23:09, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
What about RAII?
It's already in the language.
There are two problems with that statement.
The first is that the language does not offer any RAII containers out of
the box. What it
On Sunday, 16 April 2017 at 04:19:56 UTC, Joakim wrote:
came out tops if I weighted time, memory, and source code size
equally. Not always highest, as Free Pascal would sometimes
beat it, but D usually won.
You juggled the numbers to get a result ;-)
This one doesn't show any benchmarks
On Saturday, 15 April 2017 at 18:00:50 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote:
On Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 03:29:26 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Cooperative with what? He chose not to include D anymore,
which at one point dominated the shootout, and says we should
just start our own site:
On Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 03:29:26 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Cooperative with what? He chose not to include D anymore,
which at one point dominated the shootout, and says we should
just start our own site:
https://forum.dlang.org/post/no8klt$1d1i$1...@digitalmars.com
When did D dominate?
On Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 08:08:04 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
It is Isaac's game, he runs it, he chooses which languages are
up there. It is not an official Debian thing as far as I know.
So what the problem?
I think Piotr stated the problem in the original post. If a
language is missing
On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 at 09:38:49 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Tue, 2017-04-11 at 20:07 +, Stefan Koch via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[…]
At the risk of starting a flame war:
The memory safety is currently in the works.
We just have one std-lib now.
GC is slow, yes.
I don't care, it
On Wed, 2017-04-12 at 19:31 +, thedeemon via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
>
> > http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
> >
> > Why D is not there?
>
> Because maintainer of that site doesn't want D there, as I
> remember from
On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 at 19:37:06 UTC, qznc wrote:
On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 at 19:31:06 UTC, thedeemon wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski
wrote:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
Why D is not there?
Because maintainer of that site doesn't want
On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 at 19:31:06 UTC, thedeemon wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
Why D is not there?
Because maintainer of that site doesn't want D there, as I
remember from previous discussions. At some
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
Why D is not there?
Because maintainer of that site doesn't want D there, as I
remember from previous discussions. At some point (years ago) D
was present there, then removed. C and
On Tue, 2017-04-11 at 20:07 +, Stefan Koch via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
At the risk of starting a flame war:
>
> The memory safety is currently in the works.
> We just have one std-lib now.
> GC is slow, yes.
I don't care, it doesn't impact the programs I write, and the GC means
I can be
On Tue, 2017-04-11 at 19:57 +, Piotr Kowalski via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> Hello D community,
>
> I am language polyglot that lately got interested in D. I love
> it, it's very elegant language, so simple and so powerful same
> time. I will write some thoughts as outsider.
>
>
[…]
If do
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 21:06:28 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 20:48:13 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
Is it in std already? How do I allocate equivalent of
std::vector on heap with RAII in D that will be disposed at
the end of the scope automatically?
You're asking
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
Two other important things to change people minds about D
performance:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
Why D is not there?
I worked on that [0] and decided its not worth it. It is
literally a "game". You can have
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 20:48:13 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
Is it in std already? How do I allocate equivalent of
std::vector on heap with RAII in D that will be disposed at the
end of the scope automatically?
You're asking about two different things here.
RAII is already in the
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 20:48:13 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
(All gc-ed langauges recommend static preallocation :P)
;) Thanks for replying.
https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2017H1
Thanks, I have read that already, that's why I've asked about
longer term.
What about RAII?
It's
(All gc-ed langauges recommend static preallocation :P)
;) Thanks for replying.
https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2017H1
Thanks, I have read that already, that's why I've asked about
longer term.
What about RAII?
It's already in the language.
Is it in std already? How do I allocate
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
The only discussion I remember about D was that it had two
standard libraries and there were no consensus on which to use
and that it uses GC so it's slow.
It seems it's impossible to completely shrug off past
impressions. The
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 19:57:19 UTC, Piotr Kowalski wrote:
Hello D community,
I am language polyglot that lately got interested in D. I love
it, it's very elegant language, so simple and so powerful same
time. I will write some thoughts as outsider.
The reason I am looking at D in
Hello D community,
I am language polyglot that lately got interested in D. I love
it, it's very elegant language, so simple and so powerful same
time. I will write some thoughts as outsider.
The reason I am looking at D in 2017 is that D it's almost
nonexistent on popular sites for
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