Just saw another linker error in d.learn, and it got me thinking
dmd just calls the linker, and the linker spits out link errors. But what
if we had a 'linker wrapper' program which translated mangled names into
demangled names? It would at least help people understand the proble
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 15:54:50 +0300, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
Just saw another linker error in d.learn, and it got me thinking
dmd just calls the linker, and the linker spits out link errors. But
what if we had a 'linker wrapper' program which translated mangled names
into
hat if we had a 'linker wrapper' program which translated mangled
names into demangled names? It would at least help people understand
the problem better. How many times does a newbie come back and say "I
have this problem, and dmd spits out some weird message I don't
Denis Koroskin:
> Given that dmd calls a linker internally, it could also retrieve linker
> errors (if any present), translate and then show them, with a list of
> suggestions to fix the problem if possible. Here are an example:
>
> module test1;
> void foo() {}
>
> module test2;
> import te
On 11/11/10 4:54 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Just saw another linker error in d.learn, and it got me thinking
dmd just calls the linker, and the linker spits out link errors. But
what if we had a 'linker wrapper' program which translated mangled names
into demangled names? It woul
nd the linker spits out link errors. But
what if we had a 'linker wrapper' program which translated mangled
names into demangled names? It would at least help people understand
the problem better. How many times does a newbie come back and say "I
have this problem, and dmd spits out
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Mangled symbols are the main reason
for which linker messages are considered incomprehensible.
I beg to differ. The same confusion appears when linking C programs, where the
names are not mangled.
Top 3 linker questions:
1. What does it mean when it says "foo is r
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Apparently gnu's ld demangles by default:
http://linux.die.net/man/1/ld
(Search for "demangle".) But it recognizes C++ mangling, not D mangling.
The same for optlink.
Denis Koroskin wrote:
I suggested that previously [1], and I think that need to be a part of
DMD for a simple reason: some of the names can't be demangled because
their are somewhat "hashed" to avoid limitations such as long literal
name. E.g. "_D4math6Mбrix9х44F32__T3addTCЂ–ЎZЂ„ќFЂ—ќЂґЂ—".
Walter:
> While it's nice to demangle the names, and optlink does so for C++ names, it
> doesn't reduce the confusion about what the linker is doing. Surprisingly, I
> see
> these questions not just from newbies, but regularly from people with 10+
> years
> of experience.
What the linker is
bearophile wrote:
What the linker is doing is something that conceptually is not complex, so an
average programmer is supposed to understand what are the problems a linker
may encounter in its work.
The linker is a conceptually *trivial* program. It baffles me why programmers
with 10+ years of
Rainer Schuetze wrote:
Denis Koroskin wrote:
I suggested that previously [1], and I think that need to be a part of
DMD for a simple reason: some of the names can't be demangled because
their are somewhat "hashed" to avoid limitations such as long literal
name. E.g. "_D4math6Mбrix9х44F32__T3a
Walter Bright wrote:
Rainer Schuetze wrote:
Walter, is optlink able to deal with this 3rd representation in all
places, so we can get rid of those other two encodings?
The way long symbols on Windows are dealt with:
1. if they fit, they fit
2. try using the extended length method
3. try co
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:28:08 -0500
bearophile wrote:
> Walter:
>
> > While it's nice to demangle the names, and optlink does so for C++ names,
> > it
> > doesn't reduce the confusion about what the linker is doing. Surprisingly,
> > I see
> > these questions not just from newbies, but regula
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:03:21 -0500, Walter Bright
wrote:
bearophile wrote:
What the linker is doing is something that conceptually is not complex,
so an
average programmer is supposed to understand what are the problems a
linker
may encounter in its work.
The linker is a conceptually *
Walter:
> Top 3 linker questions:
>
> 1. What does it mean when it says "foo is referenced but not defined" ?
>
> 2. What does it mean when it says that "foo is defined in more than one
> module" ?
>
> 3. Why is my executable file so large?
>
>
> While it's nice to demangle the names, and op
bearophile wrote:
A new fresh trouble, I think I have already seen about 10-15 persons ask this
question in D.learn:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D.learn&article_id=22772
http://www.digitalmars.com/ctg/OptlinkErrorMessages.html#symbol_undefined
Walter Bright:
> bearophile wrote:
> > A new fresh trouble, I think I have already seen about 10-15 persons ask
> > this question in D.learn:
> > http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D.learn&article_id=22772
>
> http://www.digitalmars.com/ctg/OptlinkErrorMessag
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 5:02 PM, bearophile wrote:
> Walter Bright:
>
> > bearophile wrote:
> > > A new fresh trouble, I think I have already seen about 10-15 persons
> ask this question in D.learn:
> > >
> http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D.learn&article_id=
Andrew Wiley:
> Learning to
> operate a compiler and linker is a fundamental part of programming pretty
> much any compiled language, and taking it away encourages the user to not
> care how their code becomes an executable. To me, this seems like a large
> disservice.
Many new programmers don't
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:14 PM, bearophile wrote:
>
>
> If you don't even see the usefulness of more readable linker errors then...
> why are where here? Aren't we trying to improve older languages?
I said that improved error messages would be helpful.
I may have misinterpreted you when you said
Andrew Wiley wrote:
I interpreted this as the compiler adding modules that were unspecified
on the command line when calling the linker. If you meant that the
compiler should search for additional required modules for more useful
error messages, I agree with that sentiment.
As written, it seems
On 11/14/2010 00:09, Walter Bright wrote:
> I suspect that trying to guess what modules should be added to the
> linker list may cause far more confusion than enlightenment when it goes
> awry. Currently, a lot of people seem to regard what a linker does as
> magic. Making it more magical won't hel
Rainer Deyke wrote:
On 11/14/2010 00:09, Walter Bright wrote:
I suspect that trying to guess what modules should be added to the
linker list may cause far more confusion than enlightenment when it goes
awry. Currently, a lot of people seem to regard what a linker does as
magic. Making it more ma
bearophile Wrote:
> Probably we'll see more people asking for that kind of help. Not all D
> newbies come from languages that use a linker. Today a significant and
> growing percentage of newbie D programmers come from Java, C#, JavaScript,
> Python, etc.
java and c# do use a linker (I suppose
Kagamin:
> java and c# do use a linker (I suppose you just didn't use them). It's
> builtin, but still suffers from the same problems as traditional linkers.
I generally try to talk only about the things I know something about, but I
don't know enough about linkers yet, I am sorry.
Bye,
bearop
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