On 1/12/23 07:25, Walter Bright wrote:
But also, adding dynamic arrays to C won't make the currently existing
C code safer, the one they care about, because no one's gonna send the
money to update their C89/99/whatever code to C23/26. Even if they
did, there's no guarantee others would as wel
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 09:44:27 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
Bounds checking in the Linux kernel is done by
https://docs.kernel.org/dev-tools/kfence.html or
Being sampling based, this is not good enough.
I disagree. KFENCE is actually a perfect fit for what is needed
for the Linux ker
On 1/11/2023 8:15 PM, Tejas wrote:
Well, the companies don't get to single-handedly decide what features to add or
deprecate, thanks to C spec being written by ISO, which is why they have
developed their own PLs.
Yes they can, as they add extensions to C all the time.
But also, adding dynami
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 19:27:15 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
On 1/11/2023 3:26 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
It is kind of "solved", by turning all computers into C
machines,
What an amazing amount of work just to avoid adding dynamic
arrays to C.
Well, the companies don't get to single-han
On 1/11/2023 3:26 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
It is kind of "solved", by turning all computers into C machines,
What an amazing amount of work just to avoid adding dynamic arrays to C.
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 09:52:23 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
By the way, back in the 80's, I wrote my own pointer checker
for my own use developing C code. It was immensely useful in
flushing bugs out of my code. There are vestiges of it still in
the dmd source code.
But it ran very ss
By the way, back in the 80's, I wrote my own pointer checker for my own use
developing C code. It was immensely useful in flushing bugs out of my code.
There are vestiges of it still in the dmd source code.
But it ran very slooowwly, and was not usable for
shipped code.
On 1/10/2023 10:49 PM, Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
It's impractical to have this in the ISO standard, but surely not impossible.
Various C compilers from different vendors implement bounds checking. See:
* https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Bounds
This works by constructing a data structure
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 07:15:43 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 1/8/2023 8:31 PM, Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
Yes, they are not baked into the ISO language standard.
They can't be because the C semantics make it impossible.
It's impractical to have this in the ISO standard, but surely not
i
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 20:07:01 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 11:04:24 UTC, Patrick Schluter
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 09:08:59 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
Yes, as long as you do
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 11:04:24 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 09:08:59 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Yes, as long as you don't make any mistakes. A table saw
won't cut your fingers off if you n
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 09:08:59 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Yes, as long as you don't make any mistakes. A table saw won't
cut your fingers off if you never make a mistake, too.
And yet, people keep using them (table
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 07:23:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 06:34:23 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 04:31:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
ASAN, Valgrind, Clang Static Analyzer and plenty of other
tools are the practical mechanisms to prevent
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Yes, as long as you don't make any mistakes. A table saw won't
cut your fingers off if you never make a mistake, too.
And yet, people keep using them (table saws).
Don't underestimate the level of risk humans are happily willi
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 06:34:23 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 04:31:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
ASAN, Valgrind, Clang Static Analyzer and plenty of other
tools are the practical mechanisms to prevent buffer
overflows. Yes, they are not baked into the ISO language
sta
On 1/8/2023 8:31 PM, Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Buffer overflows are trivial to have in C, and C has no mechanism to prevent
them.
ASAN, Valgrind, Clang Static Analyzer and plenty of other tools are the
practical mechanisms to prev
On 1/8/2023 10:34 PM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
The best part of memory safe systems programming languages is that many of those
tools don't even have to exist, they are part of language semantics!
Exactly! I once annoyed the Coverity folks by telling them that my goal with D
was to make Coverity irr
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 04:31:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
wrote:
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Buffer overflows are trivial to have in C, and C has no
mechanism to prevent them.
ASAN, Valgrind, Clang Static Analyzer and plenty of other tools
are the practi
On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 03:54:32 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Buffer overflows are trivial to have in C, and C has no
mechanism to prevent them.
ASAN, Valgrind, Clang Static Analyzer and plenty of other tools
are the practical mechanisms to prevent buffer overflows. Yes,
they are not baked
On 1/7/2023 2:25 PM, areYouSureAboutThat wrote:
In fact, C can be used in a perfectly memory safe manner.
Yes, as long as you don't make any mistakes. A table saw won't cut your fingers
off if you never make a mistake, too.
The problem is that too few programmers know how to do that, and ev
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 03:58:43 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
wrote:
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 03:18:27 UTC, monkyyy wrote:
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 02:15:27 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
C is not just a programming language anymore. It's a complete
(and very diverse) ecosystem.
No
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 03:18:27 UTC, monkyyy wrote:
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 02:15:27 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
C is not just a programming language anymore. It's a complete
(and very diverse) ecosystem.
No progress has been made for decades but that doesn't mean
progress is
On Sunday, 8 January 2023 at 02:15:27 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
C is not just a programming language anymore. It's a complete
(and very diverse) ecosystem.
No progress has been made for decades but that doesn't mean
progress is impossible. Maybe the academia will take note that
impera
On Saturday, 7 January 2023 at 23:27:02 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka
wrote:
There are attempts to rewrite it in safer programming languages
;-) Such as https://github.com/Byron/gitoxide
I'd love to hear Lord Linus's thought on this.
Let's see if the alternative implementations turn out to be
good
On Saturday, 7 January 2023 at 22:25:30 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
Well, the worlds most widely used source code revision control
system, is written in C ;-)
There are attempts to rewrite it in safer programming languages
;-) Such as https://github.com/Byron/gitoxide
Let's see if the al
On Friday, 6 January 2023 at 11:02:03 UTC, Tejas wrote:
Those statements, even if spoken recently, are just a way of
maintaining PR. Elon also similarly calls C++ a bloated mess
and that all high performance code at Tesla is in C, as if
that's something to be proud of... their ultra safety cr
On Thursday, 5 January 2023 at 20:24:07 UTC, Alexandru Militaru
wrote:
Hi everyone,
If you remember the "D for a @safer Linux Kernel“ talk from
DConf 2019 [1], then you might want to read our paper [2] on
that matter that was just published in IEEE Access Journal.
[1] https://youtu.be/weRS
On Friday, 6 January 2023 at 04:07:12 UTC, areYouSureAboutThat
wrote:
btw. Linus one said, more or less, that one reason he likes C
so much, is because when he is typing it, he can visualise what
assembly will be produced (i.e. his mind is always intune with
the code the machine will actually
On Friday, 6 January 2023 at 10:29:30 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Fri, Jan 06, 2023 at 04:07:12AM +, areYouSureAboutThat
via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: [...]
btw. Linus one said, more or less, that one reason he likes C
so much, is because when he is typing it, he can visualise
what assemb
On Fri, Jan 06, 2023 at 04:07:12AM +, areYouSureAboutThat via
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
[...]
> btw. Linus one said, more or less, that one reason he likes C so much, is
> because when he is typing it, he can visualise what assembly will be
> produced (i.e. his mind is always intune with t
On Thursday, 5 January 2023 at 20:24:07 UTC, Alexandru Militaru
wrote:
Hi everyone,
If you remember the "D for a @safer Linux Kernel“ talk from
DConf 2019 [1], then you might want to read our paper [2] on
that matter that was just published in IEEE Access Journal.
There's also an ongoing dis
On Thursday, 5 January 2023 at 20:24:07 UTC, Alexandru Militaru
wrote:
Hi everyone,
If you remember the "D for a @safer Linux Kernel“ talk from
DConf 2019 [1], then you might want to read our paper [2] on
that matter that was just published in IEEE Access Journal.
There's also an ongoing dis
Hi everyone,
If you remember the "D for a @safer Linux Kernel“ talk from DConf
2019 [1], then you might want to read our paper [2] on that
matter that was just published in IEEE Access Journal.
There's also an ongoing discussion about it on Hacker News in
case someone is interested [3].
Ch
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