On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Tracy Reed wrote:
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 09:06:18PM -0800, da...@lang.hm spake thusly:
If you think about it, any company that bills your credit card
number repeatedly needs to store the number so it doesn't ask you
for it each time.
I haven't seen this involve a third p
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 08:20:15PM -0800, Dave Close spake thusly:
> Maybe not illegal nor unethical, but isn't this a violation of PCIDSS?
> I thought card accepters were required not to keep card numbers. True?
False. You can store card numbers. But it subjects you to much greater security
requi
Benjamin Krueger writes:
> Already, I've heard the argument that there is nothing for us to do. If we
> don't
> build these systems, we will be fired and somebody else will. I think that is
> effectively a punt on an important ethical question and we can do better than
> that.
I'm going t
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 09:06:18PM -0800, da...@lang.hm spake thusly:
> If you think about it, any company that bills your credit card
> number repeatedly needs to store the number so it doesn't ask you
> for it each time.
I haven't seen this involve a third party. That would involve the third par
>Ok, so they convert the number to their own "Guest ID". But that would
>be a one-time conversion unless they keep a map. And if they have a map,
>isn't that keeping the card number?
You don't need to keep a map or the original card number. Just run it
through a one way crypt. You don't need
"Would you like fries with that?"
They will ask you if you buy a sandwich, but not if you buy ice cream. This
constitutes personalized marketing. Fundamentally no different.
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> From: discuss-boun...@lists.lopsa.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.lopsa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Smift
>
> I don't think you can say "hey man, I just run the computers". If someone
Hey man, I just fly a plane. Same as any other passenger pilot on the
planet. If my passengers happen to be p
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.lopsa.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.lopsa.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Krueger
>
> So here's the question: What ethical
> responsibilities, if any, do we carry in enabling this kind of data
mining?
Everybody already knows, what's public information is public inf
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Phil Pennock wrote:
On 2012-02-16 at 20:20 -0800, Dave Close wrote:
Ok, so they convert the number to their own "Guest ID". But that would
be a one-time conversion unless they keep a map. And if they have a map,
isn't that keeping the card number?
Use a hash of the card n
On 2/16/2012 11:20 PM, Dave Close wrote:
Ok, so they convert the number to their own "Guest ID". But that would
be a one-time conversion unless they keep a map. And if they have a
map, isn't that keeping the card number?
One way, unique hashes are old hat. see also: md5. mapless, fast, unique
(
On 2012-02-16 at 20:20 -0800, Dave Close wrote:
> Ok, so they convert the number to their own "Guest ID". But that would
> be a one-time conversion unless they keep a map. And if they have a map,
> isn't that keeping the card number?
Use a hash of the card number as the key for the map.
-Phil
___
Benjamin Krueger wrote:
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-=
>a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/
"Target assigns every customer a Guest ID number, tied to their credit
card, name, or email address that becomes a bucket that stores a history
of
On 2/16/2012 4:30 PM, Benjamin Krueger wrote:
It's worth pointing out that this isn't the credit card company, but rather
Target (or your favorite retailer) here doing the data mining. Does using a
credit or debit card automatically grant them the right to profile your
purchases simply because
BK> But more importantly, as the people who build the tools that make this
BK> possible, what is our role in deciding what is and isn't too far? I
BK> don't want to drag in the emotional intensity of this comparison, but
BK> it is similar to the scenario of arms dealing. Guns can be used to
BK> lib
It's worth pointing out that this isn't the credit card company, but rather
Target (or your favorite retailer) here doing the data mining. Does using a
credit or debit card automatically grant them the right to profile your
purchases simply because you agreed to let Visa track your transactions?
The predictive ability borders SPOOKY but... are you sure we aren't
confusing ethics with morality?
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-ethics-and-morals.htm
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-purchase-privacy-1282.php
My quick answer to your question is t
I intended closer to the latter, but the former is interesting too.
On Feb 16, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Josh Smift wrote:
> BK> I'd like to pose an interesting question to the list.
>
> Maybe two different questions, though.
>
> Are you asking more like "do we think this kind of data mining is
> unet
BK> I'd like to pose an interesting question to the list.
Maybe two different questions, though.
Are you asking more like "do we think this kind of data mining is
unethical", or more like "if we think our employer is doing something
unethical, but which doesn't cause like violent physical harm, b
On 2012 Feb 16, at 13:33 , Benjamin Krueger wrote:
> I'd like to pose an interesting question to the list. Forbes published an
> article today detailing retailer Target's data mining practices. In
> particular, Target tracks customer purchase by credit card number (in
> addition to, of course,
un...@lists.lopsa.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Krueger
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:33 AM
To: discuss@lists.lopsa.org
Subject: [lopsa-discuss] The ethics of enabling big data
I'd like to pose an interesting question to the list. Forbes published an
article today detailing retailer Targ
I'd like to pose an interesting question to the list. Forbes published an
article today detailing retailer Target's data mining practices. In particular,
Target tracks customer purchase by credit card number (in addition to, of
course, membership cards) and uses that data to glean highly accurat
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