On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:31 PM Ben Caradoc-Davies
wrote:
> On 12/12/2018 23:08, Jonathan Moules wrote:
> > Personally I'm not a fan of the Covenant; it has big subjective
> > loopholes and components that be used to retroactively change the rules.
>
> My biggest problem with the Covenant is
On 12/12/2018 23:08, Jonathan Moules wrote:
Personally I'm not a fan of the Covenant; it has big subjective
loopholes and components that be used to retroactively change the rules.
My biggest problem with the Covenant is that it places responsibility
for enforcement on project maintainers who
Hi everyone
Thanks for this discussion, I think it reflects that whatever changes to
the CoC are made will be strong. Thanks Maria for starting it - please keep
the discussion going and don't give up yet!
I don't see the Contributor Covenant removing any assumptions 'good faith'
or 'innocence',
Hi,
You are right, let's continue on this list too.
Let me explain my point of view.
Removing the "assume good intention" is not "assuming people are guilty
until proven innocent" or "perfect paranoia". It is just putting the
intention aside when trying to solve a situation where someone feels
Hi Ben,
I think the counterpoint to this is highlighting that most western
justice systems are based around intent (i.e. good-faith or bad-faith,
or "mens rea"). For example. the difference between murder and
homicide/manslaughter is solely intent and it is up to the system itself
to
Dear Ben, all,
I think people might be confused about the "presumption of good faith".
Presumption does not mean that one can "hide behind" obvious bullying, it
does not even mean that people who actually do joke will not be
"convicted". The presumption of good faith means that reasonable doubt
Rather than guilty until proven innocent, I think the covenant proposes
a neutral and evidence-based approach. Mandating good faith as a
starting point unfortunately enables bullies who provoke a response and
then hide behind "X can't take a joke" or other minimisation to further
harm their
+1 for keeping the assumption of good faith !!
Maxi
Il giorno mar 11 dic 2018 alle ore 11:10 Arnulf Christl (aka Seven) <
se...@arnulf.us> ha scritto:
> Adding one more comment: Please, I implore you: Do not remove the
> assumption of good faith from OSGeo's principles!
>
> "Assumption of good
Adding one more comment: Please, I implore you: Do not remove the
assumption of good faith from OSGeo's principles!
"Assumption of good faith" and "Quietening down somebody" are totally
different things. In her blog on thebias.com Annalee somewhat hastily
mixes the two up when she says:
Hi,
I think it is better if we discuss this on the COC-discuss mailing list,
just to avoid adding noise to the main discuss. My initial email, as you
can see, was directed to both mailing lists and the idea of redirecting it
to discuss was to make people aware that this was being done, not to
I agree with Jonathan here. I also have my own similar personal story
from ~20 years ago where I used a French expression as the opening line
in an email where all the rest was in English... and some of the
recipients (co-workers) could very rightly have been offended. Actually
some wondered
Hi Maria,
Just a thought, but I'm not sure getting rid of the assumption of good
faith is a good idea. To do so would be basically assuming people are
guilty until proven innocent which runs counter to how these things
should work.
To use a personal anecdote, many years ago I had a black
Dear María,
I'm glad to see this progressing now the dust has settled from the past
FOSS4G where the limits of a CoC were so laid bare. As before, let me know
how best to assist in developing the CoC further. I sincerely hope that we
can progress as a community in response to this call.
Best,
Thank you Ben!
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 1:09 AM Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> María,
>
> thank you for taking the lead on this important issue. While in my view,
> the majority of OSGeo participants act with consideration and in good
> faith, a single malicious act is one too many. We get the
María,
thank you for taking the lead on this important issue. While in my view,
the majority of OSGeo participants act with consideration and in good
faith, a single malicious act is one too many. We get the behaviour we
tolerate, and a strong code of conduct helps us prevent behaviour that
Dear OSGeo community,
As you may already know, I have been working for the last months in
improving our community procedures[1] to make it a safer space. Recent
events in the community have shown that we have a lot of work ahead.
We all, as OSGeo, must remove the recent bullying and campaigning
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