Re: [Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread Jan T Kim
Hi Titus and All, On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 04:57:52AM -0800, C. Titus Brown wrote: > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 09:34:09AM +, Jan T Kim wrote: > > When using the "top down" approach of starting with a prepared piece of > > working code, I'd suggest that learners should be made aware that code > >

Re: [Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread Bennet Fauber
I think almost all code that is interesting is, in some sense, derived from both existing code and written code, so maybe we should rephrase the discussion? Perhaps something like, "We need to encourage participants to learn how to dissect existing code and understand how it is constructed and why

Re: [Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread C. Titus Brown
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 09:34:09AM +, Jan T Kim wrote: > When using the "top down" approach of starting with a prepared piece of > working code, I'd suggest that learners should be made aware that code > is normally developed from scratch, rather than by modifying existing code, > and encourage

Re: [Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread Bennet Fauber
Gerard, It may be that it is easier for instructors to be enthusiastic about one kind or another? If that is true, then lesson structure is a tool that can be used to create material about which more or different instructors can be enthusiastic; and that is a worthy goal, no? -- bennet On Mon,

Re: [Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread Jan T Kim
Dear Somon, Gerard and All, perhaps orthogonal to Simon's first time programmers vs. familiar with another language observation, in my experience there's a trade-off between getting something "interersting" quickly vs. learning how to build something usable and reliably. The half-day format of the

[Discuss] top down vs. bottom up teaching python? c.f. whole language in instructor training

2016-11-14 Thread Gerard Capes
This sounds very much like the discussion of whole-language vs phonetics approach to teaching children to read, which forms part of the instructor training. The summary for that example is that it doesn't matter - you just need to be enthusiastic. On 13/11/16 12:48, Waldman, Simon wrote: Again