Jeremy:
EXCELLENT job! I go it now I think.
To paraphrase:
In coding there are many ways to get to
the same result. Some ways are more efficient than others. These “WAYS”
are what comprises the “FRAMEWORK” that is a compilation of “Best
Practices”.
Using the FRAMEWORK guarantees maximum efficiency
in your code so you end up doing the same thing the same way, the right way (as
proven by a team of veteran developers over time as a consensus).
I got the whole Standards, Methodology
thing.
Thanks so much for the clarification.
Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com,
Inc.
4292 Country Garden
Walk NW
Kennesaw,
Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com
From: Jeremy Allen
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:52
PM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss]
???...Model Glue, Frame Work Etc...???
Dean makes an excellent
point.. my actual example for a methodology was not all that great, but it was
moving in the right direction. It is still a very good distinction to make as
these things come up a lot. So to be clear.. a methodology is not really as
concrete or encompassing as a standard but is more like a set of best practices
on how you do something that get lumped together to form a methodology. Some of
the time these practices are followed in a particular order as in method B
comes after method A etc . They are just methods of doing something.
Oh and thanks Dean, I knew I would pique someone as I knew that I was playing a
little loose with terms myself (to make a point) ;-)
Jeremy
On 6/24/06, Dean H.
Saxe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Actually, Jeremy, how you do secure encryption would be a
standard. I know you and I often use the terms interchangeably on the
project we're currently on, but standard is the proper term for prescriptive
definitions of how to do XYZ. Standards represent the concrete
implementation of policies which are high level advice on what should be done.
Standards are followed explicitly. Guidelines are general advice on
how to implement a policy, but they need not be followed explicitly.
Sorry, just had to bust your butt on that. ;-) You can thank me
later.
-dhs
Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[U] nconstitutional behavior by the authorities is constrained only
by the peoples' willingness to contest them "
--John
Perry Barlow
On Jun 24, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Jeremy Allen wrote:
Well.. a framework is
different from a methodology. A framework is a reusable set of components that
help you achieve a certain design. When using a framework it contributes
greatly to your overall software architecture and design. So a framework
by itself is NOT a methodology. A methodology is just a set of rules and a way
of doing things for a particular thing. You may use a framework as a part of a
methodology I really dislike playing fast and loose with terms. So frameworks
and methodologies are really quite different things. Ever since Fusebox started
calling itself a methodology CF developers have been getting this mixed up.
When we say framework we mean something like Struts, or Model-Glue or Hibernate.
When we say a methodology we mean something like the scientific method. Like a
secure encryption algorithm coding methodology would be a set of rules you
would follow to help properly implement an encryption algorithm. So a
methodology is HOW you might do something or how you did something. A
methodology NOT a concrete implementation of a design pattern in the form of a
reusable set of components that other developers can reuse. One other thing.
Model Glue is NOT an application. It is a framework. It is a simplification to
call MG an application. I will save the long explanation for what Visual Studio
is and keep it simple: Visual Studio is a set of software development tools (an
integrated development environment). It integrates your editing environment and
your compilers and your deployment software into one relatively slick
interface. Now the .NET *FRAMEWORK*, ASP.NET
and the technologies that Visual Studio allows you to work with.. those are
different beasts entirely. I will save the long discussion on those for another
time.
It is important to use these terms properly so that the CF community stays in
step with the rest of the software development world in my opinion. This treads
on the academic and pedantic for some, but when someone specifically asks about
frameworks it is disingenuous to lump terms so broadly.
So a good answer to that question is that a framework is a set of reusable
components designed to help you achieve a certain design and architecture in
your software. In this case Mach-II and Model-Glue et al are implementations of
the Model View Controller design pattern. The benefits of MVC and frameworks
that allow you to use this design pattern in your software architecture are
well known. They include the separation of your display (view) code and your
core business logic. This enables your program to grow more rapidly with less
maintenance headaches across time. The only real caveat is that you have to
understand the framework and the underlying design pattern to an extent or you
will only end up making things harder on yourself at first. I recommend a basic
understanding of CFCs before venturing into the CF framework land.
OK. I answered the main questions here. Only keep reading if you want to read
my long winded explanation of what I think about frameworks and why they should
be used. So of course, you don't need a framework. But it is almost guaranteed
that you will fall into some pattern when you start developing your software.
You will deal with adding a record a certain way. You will deal with deleting a
record a certain way. You will repeat this pattern across your web application
and each of the components in the web application. You will be treading ground
thousands upon thousands of developers have tread before. These frameworks
represent software developers standing on the shoulders of those that come
before us in terms of experience and knowledge. This store of knowledge in
terms of design patterns and hard won experience should not be easily
discarded.
These frameworks exist because developers do the same things over and over.
Formalizing these repeated patterns into a set of reusable components, in
aggregate, save tons and tons of time. That is kind of the whole point of
design patterns and implementing them. So do you need frameworks? Nope. Yes you
should understand the underlying concepts and how to deal with the frameworks.
You should understand the underlying principles of their use. You should not
reinvent the wheel (unless you are dying to for academic purposes). Denying the
use of a framework when you have the experience to use it and a perfect
situation for it is downright silly.
This is an extreme example that follows, but it is fun to put things into the
context of the history of software. After all that is why we use ColdFusion. JJ
Allaire and the gang way back when implemented CF Server it in C++. Somewhere
along the way folks that knew assembler wrote the first C compilers (which were
used to implement C++ compilers). And someone somewhere implemented the first
assemblers in machine code. You don't see many people saying you should learn
machine code to implement an assembler to create a C like language to create a
Java Virtual machine so you can implement a J2EE stack with a handy programming
language like CF built into it. THe same sort of logic applies to avoiding
frameworks without a really good reason. You use the tools that fit your
situation.
All that said there are still cases where you don't need a full framework. If
your application is small enough you may not need it. However, most CF
applications that ultimately creep from tiny to small in size (1-5 KLOC) range
would benefit or would have benefited from being implemented using a MVC
framework. The moral of all of this story is frameworks are good once you
understand when to use them. And once you understand when to use them and HOW
to use them you SHOULD use them where appropriate.
OK.. who actually got this far? How is that for 1000 words on frameworks and
methodologies and a few things in between? I would keep writing but the baby is
crying now.
Jeremy
On 6/23/06, Steven Ross < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
A framework is simply a methodology... like someone else stated. Ie:
you put all of X type code in X template and Y type code in Y template. Read up
on MVC (model view controller) and Model Glue is simply an implementation of
the MVC paradigm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller
On 6/23/06, Robert
Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Analagous to CSS then it
would seem...
Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com,
Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga.
30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:11 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] ???...Model Glue, Frame Work Etc...???
Well, MS Visual Studio is a develement environment for 'coding'. A
framework is more a set of rules, guidelines, and plan-of-attacks to
follow while 'coding'.
Consider this analogy. Lets say you are a writer of magazine
articles. The 'framework' in this sense maybe the particular
approach
you use to format your text, structure your paragraphs, etc. Maybe
its a 'block framework' or 'free form framework' or 'The Times
Framework'. Also in this sense, what you type the articles on makes
no difference to the framework, you could use a typewriter, pencil, or
PC/Mac.
DK
On 6/23/06, Robert Reil <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So basically Model Glue is framework software.
> Frame Work software is basically an environment to build a CF App within
> that is able to manage jobs etc like MS Visual Studio?
>
> I then would not need to even be involved with this technology if I am the
> sole app developer or am able to micro manage the dev of this app.
>
> If I am incorrect please correct me.. "NOW THAT'S! A CAN OF WORMS!
> Lol....
>
> I sense a long thread today here....
>
> Robert P. Reil
> Managing Director,
> Motorcyclecarbs.com,
Inc.
> 4292 Country
Garden Walk NW
> Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> Office 770-974-8851
> Fax 770-974-8852
> www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:20 AM
> To: discussion@acfug.org
> Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] ???...Model Glue, Frame Work Etc...???
>
> wow, what a can of worms! Personally, i'd worry about learning
CF
> first, add frameworks in later. Frameworks are a sort of guide
to
> building a application that a group of folks have a consensus on.
> Thus developers working on a project that use say ModelGlue can easily
> use the same vocabulary and if you add a new developer in the mix that
> knows ModelGlue, then they will already know the vocabulary and
> seeminlgy join in quicker and easier to the current conversations.
>
> DK
>
> On 6/23/06, Robert Reil <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am hearing a lot about Framework. Also Model Glue, and others like
the
2
> > seminette's we had at the last meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Question is:
> >
> >
> >
> > What is it all about, will I ever need it, and when would I?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert P. Reil
> >
> > Managing Director,
> >
> > Motorcyclecarbs.com
, Inc.
> >
> > 4292 Country
Garden Walk NW
> >
> > Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> >
> > Office 770-974-8851
> >
> > Fax 770-974-8852
> >
> > www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
>
> --
> Douglas Knudsen
> http://www.cubicleman.com
> this is my signature, like it?
>
>
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--
Douglas Knudsen
http://www.cubicleman.com
this is my signature, like it?
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Steven Ross
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[phone] 404-488-4364
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