[Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Daniel Holth
I became convinced that build was an inherently arbitrary-code process, and not something to be universally handled by a declarative system, when I observed an autotools project under configuration. The things spend ten minutes writing and compiling snippets of C code to determine which features ar

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Donald Stufft
On Mar 27, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I became convinced that build was an inherently arbitrary-code > process, and not something to be universally handled by a declarative > system, when I observed an autotools project under configuration. The > things spend ten minutes writing and

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Paul Moore
On 27 March 2014 19:48, Donald Stufft wrote: > I do believe a declarative build system can work for the 90% case > though and should probably be the "default" option. +1. Easy things should be easy, and hard things possible. Ultimately, I want to say "this is my project, here are the Python files

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Donald Stufft
On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:19 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 27 March 2014 19:48, Donald Stufft wrote: >> I do believe a declarative build system can work for the 90% case >> though and should probably be the "default" option. > > +1. Easy things should be easy, and hard things possible. Ultimately, >

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Paul Moore
On 27 March 2014 20:30, Donald Stufft wrote: >> When I interface with an external library that may not be in the same >> place on every system, I'd expect to say a bit more, but mainly just >> "look in location X, but the user can override this with a command >> line argument". > > That's the job

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread David Cournapeau
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Mar 27, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > > I became convinced that build was an inherently arbitrary-code > > process, and not something to be universally handled by a declarative > > system, when I observed an autotools proje

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-27 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 28 Mar 2014 05:42, "Daniel Holth" wrote: > > I became convinced that build was an inherently arbitrary-code > process, and not something to be universally handled by a declarative > system, It wasn't an accident that last years PyCon panel was subtitled "setup.py *install* must die" :) As oth

Re: [Distutils] Is build an inherently arbitrary-code process?

2014-03-28 Thread Chris Barker
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 28 Mar 2014 05:42, "Daniel Holth" wrote: > > I became convinced that build was an inherently arbitrary-code > > process, and not something to be universally handled by a declarative > > system, > > It wasn't an accident that last years Py