On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:05:12AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> Floris Bruynooghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I think it would be really good if we could agree on a simple
> > solution for this problem. However I haven't really seen an
> > agreement come out of this thread. So far what (I thin
Floris Bruynooghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think it would be really good if we could agree on a simple
> solution for this problem. However I haven't really seen an
> agreement come out of this thread. So far what (I think) some
> proposed solutions are:
>
> 1 Have a different path in /usr
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> >
> > I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
> > and put that first in my PATH, but I have gotten lazy lately, and
> > sometimes it will bite me. ;)
>
> On Debian
Gael Varoquaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 01:30:14PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed, one for
> > use by the system and the other for users to add things to. Or at
> > least be set up so that it appears that way -- the
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 01:30:14PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
>
> > Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed,
>
> What you propose resembles very much to what MacOSX does... I see on the
> different scientific-Python-related mailing lists how users have
> diffi
Sorry for breaking up the thread. I wasn't subscribed to the list (now
I am) and apparently I stopped being CC'd at some point, so I'll have to
sum up several things and address them here.
1) I agree that "system" scripts should use the "system" python
(whatever that is defined to mean - for now
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:59:32PM +0200, Jan Matejek wrote:
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> Barry Warsaw napsal(a):
> | On Apr 13, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> |> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> |>> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, St
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Barry Warsaw napsal(a):
| On Apr 13, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
|> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
|>> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
|>>> I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /us
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:10:03PM +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> I think this discussion is really going on because Python does not have
> good library-versioning support. What it needs is to get this
+1
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Gael Varoquaux wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 01:30:14PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
a second Python
needs to be installed on top of the system Python to add modules to it.
Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed,
one for use by the system
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>
>
> I think this discussion is really going on because Python does not have
> good library-versioning support.
I personally think that the very idea to have several side by side
versions of the same package is doomed to failure: what is needed is a
stable API for the used
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 01:30:14PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> > a second Python
> > needs to be installed on top of the system Python to add modules to it.
> Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed,
> one for use by the system and the other for users to add
Greg Ewing wrote:
> Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>> a second Python
>> needs to be installed on top of the system Python to add modules to it.
>
> Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed,
> one for use by the system and the other for users to add
> things to. Or at least be set up so that
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> a second Python
> needs to be installed on top of the system Python to add modules to it.
Maybe the system should come with two pythons installed,
one for use by the system and the other for users to add
things to. Or at least be set up so that it appears that
way -- they m
At 11:24 PM 4/13/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>Here is how things are happening (I simplified a bit the example, because
>I have a lot of things in my sys.path):
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python -c "import sys; print sys.path"
>['', '/usr/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/configobj-4.4.0-py2.5.e
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 05:12:48PM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> However, now that it's a known bug, it's merely an engineering problem to
> fix it. :)
Fantastic! I thought it was a feature, so I was unhappy, but if it's only
a bug, well, I know too well that these things happen, and if nobody
At 08:26 PM 4/13/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 02:04:56PM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > At 05:29 PM 4/13/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> >> Of course setuptools will
> >> break this, because it adds itsef to front of the PYTHONPATH, and totally
> >> break the PYT
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 02:04:56PM -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 05:29 PM 4/13/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>> Of course setuptools will
>> break this, because it adds itsef to front of the PYTHONPATH, and totally
>> break the PYTHONPATH semantics (Grrr).
>
> The entire point of PYTHONPATH
At 05:29 PM 4/13/2008 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>Of course setuptools will
>break this, because it adds itsef to front of the PYTHONPATH, and totally
>break the PYTHONPATH semantics (Grrr).
The entire point of PYTHONPATH is to be able to put things at the
front of it, so I don't see how that's
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 03:26:52PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 17:53 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > >PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
> >
> > It affects which application you should run, not which interpreter
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On Apr 13, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>
I used to always set up my own Python[s] i
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On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> Yes, your luck holds -- as does mine, for now ... but since Barry
> works for Canonical (besides being Python's new Release Manager),
> he has a civic responsibility to report Ubuntu Python bugs
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 12:31:08PM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> What I am proposing:
> 1) the OS comes with its own "system Python", which is installed
> not as the "python" package, but as some OS-required package
> (maybe call it "system-python" or something) and it goes into
> /usr/system
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On Apr 13, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>
>>> I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
>>> and put that fi
Stephen Waterbury wrote:
Oops, my email client doesn't detect unbalanced parens -- typo here
(what I get for too-complicated paren/double-dash-mixing ;):
> optionally install, and which go into /usr. And the system package
> manager -- e.g., apt on Debian/Ubuntu systems) would have all its usual
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:16:57AM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>> On Debian and derivatives (e.g. Ubuntu) you might have even more fun.
>>> They put /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages on the sys.path *of the
>>> system python*! This means that you can break your
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:16:57AM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> > On Debian and derivatives (e.g. Ubuntu) you might have even more fun.
> > They put /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages on the sys.path *of the
> > system python*! This means that you can break your system Python by
> > i
Barry Warsaw wrote:
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> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>
>> I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
>> and put that first in my PATH, but I have gotten lazy lately, and
>> sometimes it will bite me. ;)
>
> On
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>
>>> I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
>>> and put that first in my PATH, but I have gotten lazy lately, and
>>> sometimes it will bi
Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 09:41:08PM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>> These are all broken and you should report bugs on them. I have
>>> reported many for Ubuntu. A system application should only ever
>>> depend on the system Python (or interpreter), never on the whi
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On Apr 13, 2008, at 5:50 AM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 09:41:08PM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>> These are all broken and you should report bugs on them. I have
>>> reported many for Ubuntu. A system application should only
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:21AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> > I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
> > and put that first in my PATH, but I have gotten lazy lately, and
> > sometimes it will bite me. ;)
> On Debian and
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On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>
> I used to always set up my own Python[s] in /usr/local
> and put that first in my PATH, but I have gotten lazy lately, and
> sometimes it will bite me. ;)
On Debian and derivatives (e.g. Ubuntu
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 09:41:08PM -0400, Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> > These are all broken and you should report bugs on them. I have
> > reported many for Ubuntu. A system application should only ever
> > depend on the system Python (or interpreter), never on the whims of
> > your $PATH.
Barry Warsaw wrote:
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> On Apr 12, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 03:26:52PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>>> Anyway, regardless of who's correct concerning this issue (we can
>>> agree
>>> to disagree), I'm canno
On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 19:54 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> (That's also, by the way, why easy_install also always installs a
> versioned executable name for itself.)
So if setuptools can rely on this name, why doesn't it use it in the
shebang line?
Regards,
Cliff
_
On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 19:54 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 03:26 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 17:53 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > > At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > >PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
> > >
> > > It affects w
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On Apr 12, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 03:26:52PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>> Anyway, regardless of who's correct concerning this issue (we can
>> agree
>> to disagree), I'm cannot understand why you'd want Pyth
At 03:26 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 17:53 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > >PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
> >
> > It affects which application you should run, not which interpreter
> > you run the a
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 03:26:52PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> Anyway, regardless of who's correct concerning this issue (we can agree
> to disagree), I'm cannot understand why you'd want Python to behave
> differently (from a deployment standpoint) than other languages.
Numbers ! Only numbers can
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On Apr 12, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Cliff Wells wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 17:53 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
>> At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>>> PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
>>
>> It affects which application you should
On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 17:53 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> >PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
>
> It affects which application you should run, not which interpreter
> you run the application with.
I think that's splitting hairs and pret
At 12:30 PM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>PATH is *supposed* to affect applications.
It affects which application you should run, not which interpreter
you run the application with.
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On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 13:49 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 09:58 AM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> >Unless I'm missing something, I can't see the advantage your way has
> >over the traditional way.
>
> Well for one, it isn't affected by changes in PATH.
I'd call this a distinct disadva
At 09:58 AM 4/12/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>Unless I'm missing something, I can't see the advantage your way has
>over the traditional way.
Well for one, it isn't affected by changes in PATH.
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On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 09:58:28AM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 12:19 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > At 09:07 PM 4/11/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > >It seems the correct solution to this is to use "#!/usr/bin/env
> > >python" (or rather, evaluate `which env` to account
On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 12:19 -0400, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 09:07 PM 4/11/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> >It seems the correct solution to this is to use "#!/usr/bin/env
> >python" (or rather, evaluate `which env` to account for some systems
> >which have /bin/env rather that /usr/bin/env) wh
At 09:07 PM 4/11/2008 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>Hi Phillip,
>
>I recently upgraded a hosting server from Python 2.4 to Python 2.5.
>Many of the sites on this server couldn't easily be upgraded to 2.5 (at
>least not in a timely fashion), so my interim solution was to simply
>symlink ~/bin/python ->
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