Re: [dmarc-ietf] it's a version bump no matter what you call it, was Fwd: New Version

2014-06-19 Thread Hector Santos
Let us remember that DKIM+Policy were separated into two protocols; a DKIM-BASE layer and a secondary domain signing practice layer (SSP which evolved to ADSP). Making an invalid signature equal to a missing signature concept was a security logic which allowed for the exclusive or strict

Re: [dmarc-ietf] it's a version bump no matter what you call it, was Fwd: New Version

2014-06-19 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Hector Santos hsan...@isdg.net wrote: While DKIM-BASE tried to clean up this separation of the author domain policy, it could not because of all the past existing ADSP or SSP references in the many DKIM related RFCs, see RFC6376, section 1.1. But

Re: [dmarc-ietf] it's a version bump no matter what you call it, was Fwd: New Version

2014-06-19 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy superu...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Hector Santos hsan...@isdg.net wrote: While DKIM-BASE tried to clean up this separation of the author domain policy, it could not because of all the past existing ADSP or SSP

Re: [dmarc-ietf] it's a version bump no matter what you call it, was Fwd: New Version

2014-06-19 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Douglas Otis doug.mtv...@gmail.com wrote: Our company has had extensive experience dealing with email spoofing. While reputation is able to deal with bulk spamming, it is ineffective at dealing with a phishing problem, the intent behind DMARC. It is a basic

Re: [dmarc-ietf] it's a version bump no matter what you call it, was Fwd: New Version

2014-06-19 Thread Hector Santos
Let me clarify it. From a deterministic protocol standpoint, depending only on base signing analysis has no payoff, i.e. no filtering is legitimately possible with high confidence and zero/low false positive. What is left is non-deterministic, heuristic, classification Bayesian scoring,

Re: [dmarc-ietf] So if you don't want a DKIM version bump ...

2014-06-19 Thread Terry Zink
It would be nice to have some concrete examples in the draft, I find those easier to follow than descriptions. So, maybe something like: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=s1024; d=sender.example.com;

Re: [dmarc-ietf] draft-levine-dkim-conditional-00

2014-06-19 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Ned Freed ned.fr...@mrochek.com wrote: I'm uneasy with an increase in version that isn't done in a complete replacement for RFC6376. We're not just registering a couple of new extension tags here. I would prefer that, if we do go decide to go down this

Re: [dmarc-ietf] draft-levine-dkim-conditional-00

2014-06-19 Thread Ned Freed
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 1:17 PM, John Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote: Here's a draft that puts the forwarding thing into DKIM, with the dread version bump. It defines a general syntax for conditional signatures, with the forwarding signature the only condition defined so far. (Since you

Re: [dmarc-ietf] The theory of DKIM versions

2014-06-19 Thread John Levine
sigh, stupid editor. As I was saying: I can think of a variety of ways to get this effect by hacks that stay at v=1, all rather ugly. For example, we could invent pseudo-canonicalizations like c=condrelaxed/condsimple which are the same as relaxed and simple, but only are valid if the verifier

Re: [dmarc-ietf] signature sample, was So if you don't want

2014-06-19 Thread John Levine
Here's an example. The top signature is from the list, the second and third signatures were applied by the sender. The second is the normal signature and the third a weak conditional signature. The third has cs=fs which means it's only valid with an additional (forwarder) signature, and fs=t

Re: [dmarc-ietf] The theory of DKIM versions

2014-06-19 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 4:20 PM, John R Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote: I'm uneasy with an increase in version that isn't done in a complete replacement for RFC6376. The problem may be that we don't agree about what DKIM versions mean. Here's what I would like them to mean: [...] Actually