Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread John Levine
Seems like a reasonable way to do it. Please consider the environment before reading this message. John Levine, jo...@taugh.com > On Jul 20, 2021, at 23:47, tjw ietf wrote: > > I like Dave’s idea here about leaving them changing their value to none. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On J

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread tjw ietf
I like Dave’s idea here about leaving them changing their value to none. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2021, at 22:45, Dave Crocker wrote: > > On 7/20/2021 7:04 PM, John Levine wrote: >> I suppose we should have a Former DMARC Tags registry to prevent them >> from being recycled with a d

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/20/2021 7:04 PM, John Levine wrote: I suppose we should have a Former DMARC Tags registry to prevent them from being recycled with a different meaning. Or keep the current entry, changing the specification citation to NONE, or even just keep the existing one. d/ -- Dave Crocker dcroc.

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread John Levine
It appears that Dave Crocker said: >If something is to be removed from a protocol, it needs to be removed.  >So, remove it. Since you're supposed to ignore unknown tags in the DMARC record, that seems straightforward enough. I suppose we should have a Former DMARC Tags registry to prevent them

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/20/2021 1:13 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: One of the points of "deprecation" is that we don't eliminate it entirely, but say that it's no longer used. New implementations no longer generate it, but implementations that are interested in backward compatibility will still include support for it on

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Barry Leiba
>> One of the points of "deprecation" is that we don't eliminate it >> entirely, but say that it's no longer used. New implementations no >> longer generate it, but implementations that are interested in >> backward compatibility will still include support for it on receipt. >> >> Eventually, when

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread John Levine
It appears that Dotzero said: >As soon as we say deprecated, the justifications for backwards >compatibility become tenuous. If a sender has no reasonable expectation >that most validators will respect their request, why would they make such a >request (other than in ignorance). I think very few

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Dotzero
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:13 PM Barry Leiba wrote: > One of the points of "deprecation" is that we don't eliminate it > entirely, but say that it's no longer used. New implementations no > longer generate it, but implementations that are interested in > backward compatibility will still include

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Barry Leiba
One of the points of "deprecation" is that we don't eliminate it entirely, but say that it's no longer used. New implementations no longer generate it, but implementations that are interested in backward compatibility will still include support for it on receipt. Eventually, when we see that its

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Benny Pedersen
On 2021-07-20 19:16, Dotzero wrote: On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 12:39 PM Dave Crocker wrote: On 7/20/2021 7:54 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: I would like to see us deprecate PCT entirely, +1 +1 if this was postfix it would not be accepted, old habist must stay to be backward compatible, sadly not al

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Dotzero
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 12:39 PM Dave Crocker wrote: > On 7/20/2021 7:54 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: > > I would like to see us deprecate PCT entirely, > > +1 > > d/ > > -- > Dave Crocker > dcroc...@gmail.com > 408.329.0791 > +1 Michael Hammer ___ dmarc ma

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/20/2021 7:54 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: I would like to see us deprecate PCT entirely, +1 d/ -- Dave Crocker dcroc...@gmail.com 408.329.0791 Volunteer, Silicon Valley Chapter Information & Planning Coordinator American Red Cross dave.crock...@redcross.org __

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: Priming the Pump for Discussion - Ratchets

2021-07-20 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/20/2021 7:50 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: I don't agree with the characterization of the second group. I would say that we are partitioning messages into these two groups: - Those for which we can confirm that they originated in the domain they say they did. - Those for which we can not confirm t

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-20 Thread Barry Leiba
Indeed: I see PCT as a feature that was put in early, in order to allow us to experiment with things and ease into DMARC. As we move to a Proposed Standard version, I don't see a continuing need for such a phase-in feature, and aggregate reporting covers the desire to reduce reporting volume. I w

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: Priming the Pump for Discussion - Ratchets

2021-07-20 Thread Barry Leiba
Doug, I think the issue here is that I disagree with your premise, so the rest of the argument fails for me: > The goal is to partition all incoming messages into two mutually exclusive > groups: Those messages which > originated under domain owner control, and those which originated under > d