> On February 16, 2015 at 8:25 PM Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 07:34:57PM -0500, Peter Olson wrote:
> > “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”
> > ― Edmund Burke
> >
> > Peter Olson
> I think the original quote was by Santayana:
>
> George Santayana. Those w
> On February 16, 2015 at 5:19 PM Nuno Magalhães
> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> > dear Nuno,
> >
> > On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> >
> >> Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
> >
> > the reason why your emails are arriving
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2015 16 Feb 12:40 -0600, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > Hi, it is a little slow without hardware acceleration: -enable-kvm is
> > the solution here if you have recent Intel/AMD CPUs.
>
> Thanks for the tip. I had installed the package but
> On February 16, 2015 at 10:55 AM Gravis wrote:
> You dont have to be a server admin to be concerned about security. I'm a
> desktop user/developer and while customization is nice, security is
> paramount.
>
> Revelations about the NSA has really made me reconsider system security for
> my box
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 06:41:06PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:36:19 -0600
> Vince Mulhollon wrote:
>
>
> > There shouldn't be any "tweaking" for a desktop. This whole bad idea
> > comes from marketing at Microsoft
>
> Whoaaa, wait a minute. Another word for "tweaking" is
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 07:34:57PM -0500, Peter Olson wrote:
> > On February 15, 2015 at 2:39 PM Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:50:53PM -0500, Jude Nelson wrote:
> > > IVI == "In-Vehicle Infotainment." The stuff that runs your new car's UI.
> [stuff omitted]
> > No one pus
* On 2015 16 Feb 12:40 -0600, Svante Signell wrote:
> Hi, it is a little slow without hardware acceleration: -enable-kvm is
> the solution here if you have recent Intel/AMD CPUs.
Thanks for the tip. I had installed the package but was ignorant of its
use (yes, I need to RTFM more often ;-). It
> On February 15, 2015 at 2:39 PM Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:50:53PM -0500, Jude Nelson wrote:
> > IVI == "In-Vehicle Infotainment." The stuff that runs your new car's UI.
[stuff omitted]
> No one pushing this seems to be really concerned with the security, or
> the safety
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 02:44:04PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> 1) It is clear, by reading this list that part of us are mostly
> concerned with servers.
>
> 2) I also read that there are people who want to truely own their
> desktop. Some call them sentimentalists, but they are the peop
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:31:39PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> > Again, this will probably be
> > almost natural for the first release, since Devuan developers are
> > focusing on making the fewest necessary changes, but I am convinced
> > that it will soon become unpractical if not impossible
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:01:36PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
[cut]
> what you *don't* want to happen is to fall into exactly the same trap
> of forcing people into all-or-nothing decisions. we've had enough of
> that, and it would be respectful to them to give them a proper choice,
if you
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:41:52 +0100
Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 02:52 +, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > a few simple steps to have Devuan-pre-alpha-valentine installed and
> > running on qemu:
> >
> > 0)# wget
> > "http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-p
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:36:19 -0600
Vince Mulhollon wrote:
> There shouldn't be any "tweaking" for a desktop. This whole bad idea
> comes from marketing at Microsoft
Whoaaa, wait a minute. Another word for "tweaking" is "choice", kind of
like the reason we revolted and overthrew Debian.
On a m
KatolaZ freaknet.org> writes:
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:01:36PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> >
> > what you *don't* want to happen is to fall into exactly the same trap
> > of forcing people into all-or-nothing decisions. we've had enough of
> > that, and it would be res
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:01:36PM +, Luke Leighton wrote:
[cut]
>
> what you *don't* want to happen is to fall into exactly the same trap
> of forcing people into all-or-nothing decisions. we've had enough of
> that, and it would be respectful to them to give them a proper choice,
> an
hellekin dyne.org> writes:
> The version you wrote, that I reported as Issue #8, wants to tell a
> different story than what has been told so far. The project description
> clearly states that:
>
> + *removing mandatory dependencies on systemd* is the primary goal
> + in order to reach that goa
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:23:09AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
[cut]
> Hi Didier,
>
> I'll explain my motivations, and perhaps others are in my boat...
>
Since everybody seems to be on an "outing" mood, here are the reasons
why I am here :)
I fell in love with unix by reading an encyclopedia of
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> dear Nuno,
>
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
>
>> Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
>
> the reason why your emails are arriving delayed is due to your email
> configuration: your Sender header address may
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 06:22:00PM +, Alberto Zuin - Liste wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> IMHO, an user who wants a very complete "easy/ready to use" desktop
> probably will go to Mac OS or to a distro specialized to be a desktop
> (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.).
I
> welll there's a difference between including dependencies on
> systemd *itself* and converting code over to use the d-bus API. not
> that i like d-bus (long story: in 2005 i compared the spec to DCE/RPC
> and it was absolutely identical... except that d-bus only implemented
> about 25% of w
Hello Everybody,
I am not sure if this was due to a principle reason or ego, but I really
want to have a Debian-like OS that is free of any systemd and its
related packages. I just want to have a freedom to choose the packages
that I want to use, instead of being forced to use the one and only
On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 00:17 +0100, Jaromil wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Isaac Dunham wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering what /etc/apt/sources.list looks like; I've tried pointing
> > mine at
> > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main
>
> that is not yet ready, thats why is called pre-alpha :
On Sun, 2015-02-15 at 02:52 +, KatolaZ wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> a few simple steps to have Devuan-pre-alpha-valentine installed and
> running on qemu:
>
> 0)# wget
> "http://mirror.debianfork.org/devuan-jessie-i386-xfce-prealpha-valentine.iso";
>
> 1)$ apt-get install qemu-kvm
>
> 2)$ qemu-i
Le 16/02/2015 18:57, Rob Owens a écrit :
- Original Message -
From: "Didier Kryn"
Considering Devuan is a major lifeboat of free Linux-based OS, I'm
anxious about its destiny and therefore trying to figure out who is
onboard, I mean the audience.
For me, the line between desktop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
IMHO, an user who wants a very complete "easy/ready to use" desktop
probably will go to Mac OS or to a distro specialized to be a desktop
(Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.).
The most part of Devaun installation will be server, because avoiding
systemd on it,
- Original Message -
> From: "Didier Kryn"
> Considering Devuan is a major lifeboat of free Linux-based OS, I'm
> anxious about its destiny and therefore trying to figure out who is
> onboard, I mean the audience.
For me, the line between desktop and server is very blurred. I use D
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 02/16/2015 11:23 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:44:04 +0100 Didier Kryn
> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks.
>>
>> Considering Devuan is a major lifeboat of free Linux-based OS,
>> I'm anxious about its destiny and therefore trying to figur
Hi Steve and Vince.
I agree with you that the desktop must stay as slim as possible,
which means not installing the stuff you don't ask for. However I
seem to still need more than you. Let's start a list of guis:
Xterm, Synaptic, spread-shit, present
> Should we understand it's based on POSIX permissions and not on ad hoc
daemon?
yes. however, there is currently a problem with flooding the system with
hundreds of new users and groups. i'm investigating the possibility of
using extended file attributes.
--Gravis
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:2
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:
> It is perfectly arguable that people involved in servers' deployment
> do not want to dedicate time to tweaking a Linux-based desktop.
>
The root cause of a lot of the trouble has come from people rationalizing
bad decisions, or distracti
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:44:04 +0100
Didier Kryn wrote:
> Hi folks.
>
> Considering Devuan is a major lifeboat of free Linux-based OS,
> I'm anxious about its destiny and therefore trying to figure out who
> is onboard, I mean the audience.
>
> 1) It is clear, by reading this list
Gravis,
Should we understand it's based on POSIX permissions and not on
ad hoc daemon? I'll keep breezing, but a little faster :-)
Didier
Le 16/02/2015 16:55, Gravis a écrit :
You dont have to be a server admin to be concerned
You dont have to be a server admin to be concerned about security. I'm a
desktop user/developer and while customization is nice, security is
paramount.
Revelations about the NSA has really made me reconsider system security for
my box and linux in general. Obviously, systemd has a fundamental de
On Sat, 2015-02-14 at 21:36 +, Jaromil wrote:
> re all,
>
> Here is a pre-alpha sneak preview of Devuan at the current state of
> affairs. It is my valentine to Franco: despite we probably never met in
> person, I love him. He is really dedicated to this project and putting
> hard work in it.
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 10:30:32AM +, Jaromil wrote:
> While I look forward to vdev's development, I think we should change as
> little as possible here, despite the fact we will keep some systemd code
> around for a little longer (but no systemd daemon running anyway).
Oh, I was not suggesti
Hi folks.
Considering Devuan is a major lifeboat of free Linux-based OS, I'm
anxious about its destiny and therefore trying to figure out who is
onboard, I mean the audience.
1) It is clear, by reading this list that part of us are mostly
concerned with servers.
It is perfe
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Isaac Dunham wrote:
> Thanks to your write-up, I've gotten Xorg working sans udev
> (actually, simulated via overmounting with tmpfs and running mdev).
> FYI, *this* was why I included "devinfo" in libsysdev:
> for d in /dev/input/*; do DEV="`devinfo $d`"; [ -e "$
dear Nuno,
On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
the reason why your emails are arriving delayed is due to your email
configuration: your Sender header address may not be the same address
you subscribed, or so. sorry I didn'
Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Luke Leighton wrote:
> 1) your debian system will not be screwed up or compromised by using
> devuan. you will also not lose any functionality or packages.
>
> 2) we understand the difficulty o
On 15 February 2015 17:49:54 GMT+00:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:
>http://slashdot.org/submission/4203115/removing-libsystemd0-from-a-live-running-debian-system
>
>if anyone would like to help get the word out, as a way to actively
>engage more developers and end-users to give them th
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