[DNG] problem installing postgresql

2017-04-18 Thread Hendrik Boom
In the middle of installing several packages using apt-get install postgresql ruby-sass I get a message. Setting up postgresql-common (165+deb8u2) ... supported-versions: WARNING! Unknown distribution: devuan /usr/share/postgresql-common/supported-versions: 64:

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread KatolaZ
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:10:24PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > On 18/04/2017 at 19:01, KatolaZ wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 06:48:31PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > > > [cut] > > > >>> There is really no other reasonable alternative, IMVHO. > >> Yes, there is. It's called a good

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 19:01, KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 06:48:31PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > [cut] > >>> There is really no other reasonable alternative, IMVHO. >> Yes, there is. It's called a good compromise. Then, outside of it, >> you find the purists and the extremists.

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 16:16, KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 02:48:54PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: >> kato...@freaknet.org writes: >>> Unfortunately we are already paying the consequences of badly-written >>> software implementing oddly-designed solutions to non-existing >>> problems... >>

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 14:46, k...@aspodata.se wrote: [...] > Why srvmgt_daemonize(), use -f and daemon() and you'd be fine in > either camp, end case. This is well *if* the daemon has -f and does daemon(). I know the only programs that do not do it are those that were not intended to be run as

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 16:42, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Alessandro: >> On 18/04/2017 at 15:11, k...@aspodata.se wrote: >>> Alessandro Selli: >>> ... And what I don't like of Karl Aspo's idea is that it takes any instrument of policy checking and enforcing out of the monitor, which ends up

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread karl
Alessandro: > On 18/04/2017 at 15:11, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > Alessandro Selli: > > ... > >> And > >> what I don't like of Karl Aspo's idea is that it takes any instrument of > >> policy checking and enforcing out of the monitor, which ends up not > >> being able to monitor anything, it

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread karl
Katola2: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 03:11:51PM +0200, k...@aspodata.se wrote: ... > > If I can get a value from the kernel instead of from the process, > > I'd take the kernel value. > > > > Why do a process have to query the kernel to get a value and then > > sending it to a monitor over a

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread KatolaZ
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 02:48:54PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > kato...@freaknet.org writes: > >Unfortunately we are already paying the consequences of badly-written > >software implementing oddly-designed solutions to non-existing > >problems... > > Indeed. But what's your point? > Oh, you

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 15:11, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Alessandro Selli: > ... >> And >> what I don't like of Karl Aspo's idea is that it takes any instrument of >> policy checking and enforcing out of the monitor, which ends up not >> being able to monitor anything, it becomes just a shell: fire and

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Arnt Gulbrandsen
kato...@freaknet.org writes: Unfortunately we are already paying the consequences of badly-written software implementing oddly-designed solutions to non-existing problems... Indeed. But what's your point? Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Arnt Gulbrandsen
kato...@freaknet.org writes: I genuinely don't understand why the kernel should know about the internals of running processes, or get notified if a process is "ready" to do whatever it is supposed to do, or get queried by other processes which would like to access this kind of information, or

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread KatolaZ
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 02:15:38PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > I've read this thread fairly thoroughly, but fail to see much of a use > case... > > There's hypothetical stuff, what if service x needs service y. Well, what if > it does. Should it demand that y be running at every moment and

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread karl
Alessandro Selli: ... > And > what I don't like of Karl Aspo's idea is that it takes any instrument of > policy checking and enforcing out of the monitor, which ends up not > being able to monitor anything, it becomes just a shell: fire and forget. I honestly do not understand what I have written

Re: [DNG] Why I don't want to have Pöttersoft on my system

2017-04-18 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 17/04/2017 à 16:54, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult a écrit : On 17.04.2017 16:37, Joachim Fahrner wrote: Am 2017-04-17 11:18, schrieb Klaus Ethgen: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5644 No further comment needed. Have fun

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread karl
Allesandro, I'm not interested in a debate (people talking past each other), I'm interested in understanding why the proposed library and it function calls are such a good idé, since I don't think it is. Wheter to run a monitor or not is a different question, which I consider is up to the local

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Adam Borowski
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:32:00AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 12:21:05PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Why should a car driver care if the traffic light has the red or the > > green light turned on? > > Why should a sysadmin care if the OS he uses runs systemd or not?

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 12:32, KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 12:21:05PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > [cut] > >>> And why should a program/daemon care if >>> it has a monitor or not ? >> Why should a car driver care if the traffic light has the red or the >> green light turned on? >>

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Ron
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:32:00 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > > Why should a car driver care if the traffic light has the red or the > > green light turned on? > > Why should a sysadmin care if the OS he uses runs systemd or not? > > > > This is a totally wrong assumption.

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread KatolaZ
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 12:21:05PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: [cut] > > > And why should a program/daemon care if > > it has a monitor or not ? > > Why should a car driver care if the traffic light has the red or the > green light turned on? > Why should a sysadmin care if the OS he

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Alessandro Selli
On 18/04/2017 at 10:35, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Alessandro Selli: >> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 at 12:06:44 +0200 (CEST) >> k...@aspodata.se wrote: >>> Enrico Weigelt: >>> ... Let's just take some example: libsrvmgt with funcs like that: * srvmgt_daemonize() --> detach from

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread karl
Alessandro Selli: > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 at 12:06:44 +0200 (CEST) > k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > Enrico Weigelt: > > ... > > > Let's just take some example: libsrvmgt with funcs like that: > > > > > > * srvmgt_daemonize() > > > --> detach from controlling terminal, etc > > > > Why do any

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread KatolaZ
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 03:36:09AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:09:02 +0200 > exha...@posteo.net wrote: > > > in the same way that there's not a perfect graphical desktop for all > > the people, > > Quoted for truth! > > You can't *download* or *install* the perfect GUI

Re: [DNG] tiny service state api [WAS: Fwd: init system agnosticism]

2017-04-18 Thread Steve Litt
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:09:02 +0200 exha...@posteo.net wrote: > in the same way that there's not a perfect graphical desktop for all > the people, Quoted for truth! You can't *download* or *install* the perfect GUI desktop, you must construct the GUI desktop that's best for you. And that