Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 05:34:29PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: [cut] > > So please, let's stop making fouls of ourselves. The problem is not > > systemd being or not being free software, rather its creators and > > sponsors being or not being well-intentioned towards the free software > >

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On 2017-07-11 00:42, KatolaZ wrote: On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 05:51:24PM -0400, zap wrote: Well I am planning in the near future to learn more about programming, if I learn enough, I will help. but until then, I am of no use except maybe in donations. Reporting bugs is another very useful

Re: [DNG] reportbug [was: Why did it take Devuan 2 years to replace systemd?]

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 07:34:02PM -0300, Douglas Guptill wrote: > Hi all: > > I have worn out the previous subject of this thread; so am starting a > new one. > > Thanks for the welcoming, and tolerant, reponses. In the past I have > always worked by myself; joining a collaborative project

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:29:51AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:35:27PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:17:40 -0500 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > > > > ascii,samba-libs > > > > Don't understand why this is on the list, surely this will be built >

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 05:51:24PM -0400, zap wrote: > Well I am planning in the near future to learn more about programming, > if I learn enough, I will help. but until then, I am of no use except > maybe in donations. > > Reporting bugs is another very useful activity. Please have a look at

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Quoting Miroslav Rovis (miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr): > Svante, I got packages from zap. zap, I got your email, it's just the Lurker > that is limited to 40k (which means you can only send some 30k (because mail > encodes in base64) in one email > DIGRESSION > I vote for the limit to be raised

[DNG] UPS Upgrade for Amprolla

Ladies, Gentlemen, Ewoks, Wookies, and Unicorns, I'll be taking amprolla.devuan.org offline for a few minutes in about 1 hour. That is 02:00 US EDT/06:00 UTC. Due to the recent severe weather outages, I've decided to upgrade all of my battery backups. These are not top of the line, but are new

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Do the install of initscripts like this though just in case: sudo apt install -s initscripts that is like a way to test. ;) glad you got the packages, I hope it helps. Also, backup your important files first just in case. :) On 07/10/2017 11:56 PM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > On

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 170710-23:39+0200, Svante Signell wrote: > On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 14:12 +, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > Hi Svante and everybody! > > > > (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm > > replying to. zap > > might give useful advice, since he --later-- reported he successfully

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com): > I believe the Google slogan was "Don't be evil." "First, do no harm" is > from the English translaation of the Hippocratic Oath. Strictly speaking, that's from 17th C. Latin, really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere In general,

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

* On 2017 10 Jul 20:41 -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 05:34:29PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: > I believe the Google slogan was "Don't be evil." "First, do no harm" is > from the English translaation of the Hippocratic Oath. Sigh. Just like Abe Lincoln said, "The problem

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 05:34:29PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > A [L]GPL'ed worm or virus is Free Software, but is it acceptable > software? Of course, if we're only concerned about its licensing, we > won't have a care what it does to user's computers or data. > > It has always seemed to

Re: [DNG] Why did it take Devuan 2 years to replace systemd?

On Sun, Jul 09, 2017 at 04:31:18PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Sat, Jul 08, 2017 at 09:35:06PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Rather than argue the exact amount of time, I took his question at face > > value and answered why it's so dam hard to alt-init a systemd-infested > > system. You can

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 07/10/2017 06:02 PM, Svante Signell wrote: > On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 17:54 -0400, zap wrote: >> contrib and non-free are unsafe in my opinion... >> >>> #Contains no source files :( >>> deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii-proposed main > Just remove the entries below then. No prob

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 02:53:47PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Well, there _was_ the xemacs vs. GNU emacs matter. > > (I teased Richard at one point over dinner by saying 'I hope you don't > mind that I'm a vi user. But he had a beautiful comeback; 'We of the > Church of Emacs do not consider

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

* On 2017 10 Jul 14:24 -0500, KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:53:09PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. Just because the code is GPL, > > it seems fine by him. > > Sorry, but I really don't see what RMS should do here. He has focussed > his

[DNG] reportbug [was: Why did it take Devuan 2 years to replace systemd?]

Hi all: I have worn out the previous subject of this thread; so am starting a new one. Thanks for the welcoming, and tolerant, reponses. In the past I have always worked by myself; joining a collaborative project will be a culture shock, or at least a major adjustment, for me. I have poked

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:35:27PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:17:40 -0500 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > > ascii,samba-libs > > Don't understand why this is on the list, surely this will be built > with the other Samba packages (they get built from the same source > code),

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 17:54 -0400, zap wrote: > contrib and non-free are unsafe in my opinion... > > > #Contains no source files :( > > deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii-proposed main Just remove the entries below then. No prob ;) > > contrib > > non-free > >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

contrib and non-free are unsafe in my opinion... On 07/10/2017 05:44 PM, Svante Signell wrote: > On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 15:26 +, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > >> I've opened a topic: >> OpenRC installation in Devuan Ascii >> https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1128 >> and yes I have (one snag

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > Sorry, but I really don't see what RMS should do here. He has focussed > his entire life on the fundamental problem of making sure that > software remains free, as in speech, and he has always (and > rightfully, IMHO) avoided to intervene in any technical

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

Well I am planning in the near future to learn more about programming, if I learn enough, I will help. but until then, I am of no use except maybe in donations. On 07/10/2017 05:17 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2017-07-10 15:58, zap wrote: >> >> though actually, one other problem in ascii

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 15:26 +, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > I've opened a topic: > OpenRC installation in Devuan Ascii > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1128 > and yes I have (one snag left to understand, as per the second post > in that topic) successfully ran: > apt-get source util-linux

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 14:12 +, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > Hi Svante and everybody! > > (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm > replying to. zap > might give useful advice, since he --later-- reported he successfully > installed > OpenRC) > > Svante, I'm taking your

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:17:40 -0500 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2017-07-10 15:58, zap wrote: > > > > though actually, one other problem in ascii exists... libsystemd0. > > > > I want that removed at some point, but I can wait. in time it shall > > happen I am sure. > > > > It will only happen

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On 7/10/17 4:37 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: On 2017-07-10 15:25, Miles Fidelman wrote: We are the community. We need to act for ourselves. So far, that's not working all that well. Miles Fidelman Miles, I just have to ask If you think think it's not working too well who is to blame?

Re: [DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

On 2017-07-10 15:58, zap wrote: though actually, one other problem in ascii exists... libsystemd0. I want that removed at some point, but I can wait. in time it shall happen I am sure. It will only happen if volunteers step forward to do the work. Here is a list of packages in ASCII that

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:25:27 -0400 Miles Fidelman wrote: > On 7/10/17 4:17 PM, KatolaZ wrote: [snip] > > We are the community. We need to act for ourselves. > > > > > So far, that's not working all that well. > > Miles Fidelman I'm not sure of that, Miles. The

[DNG] You know, isn't ascii being more stable ironic to anyone?

I find this peculiar, that, devuan ascii is more stable in some places than devuan jessie... This to me sounds like a contradiction. xD when it comes to openrc though this is true once you have actually installed it. and if the problem debian jessie had where the sound gets reset exists with

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 07/10/2017 04:37 PM, zap wrote: > > On 07/10/2017 02:15 PM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: >> On 170710-13:28-0400, zap wrote: >> >> Well, zap... >> >>> On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: On 170710-14:12+, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > Hi Svante and everybody! > > (and zap,

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On 07/10/2017 03:23 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:53:09PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: >> * On 2017 10 Jul 12:45 -0500, mdn wrote: >>> Le 10/07/2017 19:29, zap a écrit : I hope linus does something about it. I Really wish stallman would take this seriously as a

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On 2017-07-10 15:25, Miles Fidelman wrote: We are the community. We need to act for ourselves. So far, that's not working all that well. Miles Fidelman Miles, I just have to ask If you think think it's not working too well who is to blame? Please answer this question . . . what you

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On 7/10/17 4:17 PM, KatolaZ wrote: On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 04:07:48PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: [cut] Systemd may be free, but it's approach to agglomerating function after function, and becoming a requirement for more and more other software - is an affront to software freedom. That

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 04:07:48PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: [cut] > > Systemd may be free, but it's approach to agglomerating function after > function, and becoming a requirement for more and more other software - is > an affront to software freedom. That MIGHT be, or become, of interest

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

copy of one of Teodore Tso comments: So I can't speak for Linus, but the reason why I can't trust systemd is > that I don't believe that the systemd maintainers have "good taste" --- as > used by Linus in his TED talk: ted.com - The mind behind Linux >

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

I think it's clear he's talking about systemd when he says: "You all presumably know why." Plus, there is some interesting comments from Teodore Tso talking about systemd in G+ https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/EJrEuxjR65J On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Steve Litt

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 07:48:04PM +, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > On 170710-20:38+0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:28:28PM -0400, zap wrote: > > > On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > > > I've opened a topic: > > > > OpenRC installation in Devuan Ascii > > > >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 170710-20:38+0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:28:28PM -0400, zap wrote: > > On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > > I've opened a topic: > > > OpenRC installation in Devuan Ascii > > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1128 > > > > # apt-get build-dep

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:53:09PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote: > * On 2017 10 Jul 12:45 -0500, mdn wrote: > > Le 10/07/2017 19:29, zap a écrit : > > > I hope linus does something about it. > > As for Linus, I think he'll only do something if he is given an > ultimatum of supporting only SD's

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

* On 2017 10 Jul 12:45 -0500, mdn wrote: > Le 10/07/2017 19:29, zap a écrit : > > I hope linus does something about it. I Really wish stallman would take > > this seriously as a security risk. > I too but RMS just care about licensing and a bit community relations > atm (from what I can observe).

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 01:28:28PM -0400, zap wrote: > On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > I've opened a topic: > > OpenRC installation in Devuan Ascii > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1128 > > # apt-get build-dep util-linux > > Broken builddeps:util-linux:amd64 Depends

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 170710-13:28-0400, zap wrote: Well, zap... > > On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > On 170710-14:12+, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > >> Hi Svante and everybody! > >> > >> (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm replying to. > >> zap > >> might give useful

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

Le 10/07/2017 19:29, zap a écrit : > I hope linus does something about it. I Really wish stallman would take > this seriously as a security risk. I too but RMS just care about licensing and a bit community relations atm (from what I can observe). He's been out of tech for a while. > > > On

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

I hope linus does something about it. I Really wish stallman would take this seriously as a security risk. On 07/10/2017 12:46 PM, Vincent Bentley wrote: > Perhaps Linus will be brave enough to stand up to RedHat and request > that they fork Linux 4.x into SystemD so that Linux 5.0 will use SysV

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 07/10/2017 11:26 AM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > On 170710-14:12+, Miroslav Rovis wrote: >> Hi Svante and everybody! >> >> (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm replying to. >> zap >> might give useful advice, since he --later-- reported he successfully >> installed

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

Perhaps Linus will be brave enough to stand up to RedHat and request that they fork Linux 4.x into SystemD so that Linux 5.0 will use SysV as the reference init. SystemD will eventually replace the Linux kernel so why not just fork it now and take their followers with them. On 10/07/17 16:57,

[DNG] Grsecurity Stable Patch Access Agreement

The text of Grsecurity's agreement is here . Really bald-faced restriction of your GPL rights in writing. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

Indeed. On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Bruce Perens wrote: > The entire paragraph is even more damning: > > And yes, a large part of this may be that I no longer feel like I can > trust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why. > > > On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at

Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

The entire paragraph is even more damning: And yes, a large part of this may be that I no longer feel like I can trust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why. On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Emiliano Marini wrote: > I no longer feel like I can >

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

On 170710-14:12+, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > Hi Svante and everybody! > > (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm replying to. zap > might give useful advice, since he --later-- reported he successfully > installed > OpenRC) ... > By the way, if I get into more difficulty

[DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"

I no longer feel like I can trust "init" https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/7/6/577 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,

Hi Svante and everybody! (and zap, to whom you right as second person in the email I'm replying to. zap might give useful advice, since he --later-- reported he successfully installed OpenRC) Svante, I'm taking your suggestion in the other thread some three days ago now, or so. I want to try

Re: [DNG] YANAB (Yet-Another-Not-A-Bug)

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:22:53AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=867745 > > HND > > KatolaZ I missed the part where it says not a bug. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] YANAB (Yet-Another-Not-A-Bug)

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:22:53 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170710092253.ge15...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=867745 ..shouldn't the "Toggle useless messages" link show us the alleged useless and "Me too!!!" etc messages? ;o) ..message #5 in

Re: [DNG] Why did it take Devuan 2 years to replace systemd?

On Sun, Jul 09, 2017 at 02:15:56PM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote: > Geez. I had a Debian system go belly-up last night because /var got messed > up. No journal, so you can't boot out of emergency mode. Can't mount a > damned USB stick in emergency mode because udev isn't running. Got to boot > a

[DNG] YANAB (Yet-Another-Not-A-Bug)

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=867745 HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@)

Re: [DNG] Devuan 1.0 with Linux Pro

On Monday 10 July 2017 at 10:04:59, KatolaZ wrote: > Via @jaromil > > http://www.sparkhaus-shop.com/uk/magazines/linux-magazine-linux-pro-magazin > e/eh30201.html# I'm pretty sure Devuan is on that DVD because of the article about Devuan in the German lanugage version of the magazine:

[DNG] Devuan 1.0 with Linux Pro

Via @jaromil http://www.sparkhaus-shop.com/uk/magazines/linux-magazine-linux-pro-magazine/eh30201.html# HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu ---

Re: [DNG] wpa_supplicant - wlan0: No suitable network found

Thanks, Ralph and KatolaZ. That was helpful info to learn. After moving around quite a bit during the experimentation, it's probably not a hardware or software problem per se unless a different channel works better or I can find a way to attach a better antenna. It turns out to be that the