Re: [DNG] Proposals for an xfce-desktop-lite

on from their old default install. Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Ummmm, no

Mitt Green wrote: > I reckon as long as his Fedora boots, he doesn't care. I think that's the key reason. Linus is concerned with the kernel - and while I suspect he has personal preferences about what is run on top of that, he's "detached" enough to take the

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: >Down to zero? Depends on what the system is doing ! I've just checked several of my systems, one showed 12k when I logged in and dropped to 0. OK, that's a router so doesn't do much disk I/O - just a bit of logging. Another (my mail server amongst other

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: >That's the logic one would naively expect but I'm not sure of it. I'm > afraid the data remains in the cache and not backed-up to disk until some > process needs room in the cache. You can do the experiment of writing data to > a usb memory stick and

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Didier Kryn wrote: > There remains a fundamental problem with automatic mount/umount. While > automounting is safe, auto-unmounting is not if it is triggered by device > removal. > Unmounting must be done *before* removing the device if anything has been > written to it,

Re: [DNG] I've got the automounter running

Steve Litt wrote: > I did a test. I created hello.txt, put "hello world" in it, saved it, > and yanked out the thumb three seconds later. Of course the > whole /media/sdd1 tree vanished. When I plugged in the thumb again, > hello.txt contained exactly what I'd typed in

Re: [DNG] Preferred automounter behavior?

Steve Litt wrote: > With /dev/sd? you can at least try to guess which one got > plugged in last, and then verify. It's certainly no warse (probably better actually) than the Windows world where it could be E:, F:, or something else - and it could even change

Re: [DNG] nmap in Debian Wheezy

, suggests, recommends, version ...), showpkg (which is a summary), search, check outman apt-cache Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] nmap in Debian Wheezy

On 24/12/15 10:36, Emiliano Marini wrote: Yeah, I checked that manpage, but apt-cache shows no info about recommended and suggested packages, only dependencies (at least in wheezy) apt-cache show package gives info, including recommended. Simon

Re: [DNG] nmap in Debian Wheezy

documentation seems lacking, but example files are a great fallback as long as programs use plain-text ones. Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Question on Devuan

Linux O'Beardly wrote: > While many here would probably say it's not a good idea to run servers on > Devuan until a production release, I am already running it on a number of > servers. That's good to know - I need to find time to do some testing myself. > R. W.

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

John Hughes wrote: > Yes, the impression I get around here is that this is a religious argument > for most of you. > > I had hopes for Devuan, but the lack of rational thinking convinces me that > it's going nowhere. There's no lack of rational thinking. People here don't

Re: [DNG] Life's too short to reply to trolls

Dragan FOSS wrote: > If the group is so weak, that one opponent may threaten it, then something is > wrong with that group, right? No. As pointed out, the "discussion" has distracted people from the task in hand. No-one here has to justify their desire to be systemd free

Re: [DNG] Not getting your emails

Mitt Green wrote: > Go Linux wrote: > >> Just a heads up. None of your emails are coming through. Not even in spam. >> I >only know that you've posted when I see quotes in the responses. I have >> a >yahoo address for this list and it has been a

Re: [DNG] the consistency of omelette

Florian Zieboll wrote: > You know, I am certainly not the person who wouldn't agree to the > concept of breaking eggs to make an omelette. But it's completely > unnacceptable to go to the supermarket and break everybody else's eggs > too, just because you want to make yourself

Re: [DNG] Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

Edward Bartolo wrote: >> No matter what you believe about this, overriding a command with itself >> is a pointless exercise. dh_auto_clean will be invoked as part of the >> 'dh clean' sequence, cf > > Please, refrain from using offensive and vulgar expressions. 'cf' is >

Re: [DNG] Which email client can I use to properly quote emails?

Florian Zieboll wrote: > If the fear of loosing your mail archive is the only reason to avoid > IMAP: Many IMAP capable mail clients support synchronizing to local > folders. For those that don't, you can easily create a local (or remote) > backup with isync/mbsync which could

Re: [DNG] Which email client can I use to properly quote emails?

Steve Litt wrote: > You might wonder why I'm so partial to IMAP: A fair question indeed. I think a fairer question would be why anyone would be against it ! OK, there's one reason - and that's if you are not running you own mail server in which case you are reliant

Re: [DNG] top posting, was: Re: Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

shraptor wrote: > I must admit I am really clueless to what is considered good practice in > mailing-lists. ... > I am not rude on purpose but I truly don't know mailing-list style of > interaction. > Should I delete this or keep this? Write here or write there? In "days

Re: [DNG] alternative to raspbian without systemd

Gregory Nowak wrote: > From what I read, the 2nd generation B has one 10/100 ethernet port > which is a network card on one of the pi's usb ports. Besides that, it > does have four usb ports, and you can hook up hubs to those as well of > course. That is correct - one 10/100

Re: [DNG] OT: Degree?

Mitt Green wrote: > I mean, that's something normal, neither years in the field > nor degree won't make you smart and experienced > (years are not equal to experience) alone, something > has to be inside your skull. That echoes something I wrote off-list to the OP. Having

Re: [DNG] Interesting read from RMS

Jaromil wrote: > Of the three perhaps only Linus did, after > all he is an active programmer and reads > regularly code. But he is refraining from > doing universal statements pro or against > the whole of systemd, while interacting > on details, which I think is wise to do for

Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

Mitt Green wrote: > But I also have libsystemd0 file in /etc/apt/preferences.d containing: > > > > Package: libsystemd0 > Pin: origin "" > Pin-Priority: -1 > > Does anyone have any tips for getting more meaningful output from

Re: [DNG] ntp (Was: Detailed technical treatise of systemd)

Didier Kryn wrote: > NTP does not adjust the RTC brutally; it seems to adjust slowly the frequency > so that synchronization happens without the process being noticeable to other > apps - it can take hours. On shutdown it saves the RTC settings in > /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift, and

Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

Didier Kryn wrote: >>> Why the hell did they invent suspend-to-disk? >> I take it you don't like the idea ? > No. I don't dislike the idea. I admit it is brillant. I'm confused then - but that's not hard ! > This leads to the conclusion: boot time doesn't matter if you never

Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

Didier Kryn wrote: > Why the hell did they invent suspend-to-disk? I take it you don't like the idea ? My only laptop is OS X, and I tend to leave so much open (text files of temporary notes, a gazzillion web pages/tabs, mail (home), mail (work), and a few others. To boot

Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

KatolaZ wrote: > ... but please: do not urge people > to reboot, ever. There is simply no need at all to reboot, and in the > ovewhelming majority of use cases it is not necessary at all to use > the latest kernel available, unless ... With all due respect, I disagree with

Re: [DNG] About the experimental live DVD

Godefridus Daalmans wrote: > We all need to begin somewhere. > > Not all of us are experienced enough in the areas we need to learn to make > Devuan thrive. Indeed, and I feel a bit "leechish" not being able to put anything practical in - I know next to nothing about

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming

Didier Kryn wrote: > Out of curiosity, why are the virtual Ethernet given random addresses? Well they have to have something ! For Xen, they've registered an OUI to get a block of MAC addresses to use. If you don't specify teh MAC address in the VM config then it'll pick one at

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

Hendrik Boom wrote: > Can we agree that ww shouldnn't have to change our configurations if we > do not change anything in the hardware? That would be a reasonable base requirement. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

poitr pogo wrote: > > I thought it was stupid for other reasons, but now that you mention it, > > > yeah, naming it after the particular slot into which it's plugged in is > > stupid, and if you take the box apart and move things around, you can > > break your OS. > > > >

Re: [DNG] netman: support for wlan1, wlan2, ... and eth1, eth2, .... and new systemd's naming scheme

tilt! wrote: > I think the entire issue "how do i scan for available networks" is badly > implemented in wicd *and* in Windows WiFi Connections (which are two WiFi > connection assistants i know from practice). For completeness, this is how OS X (version 10.8) does it. If

Re: [DNG] Purpose of an OS: was network device naming (was: What can I do after netman?)

Steve Litt wrote: >> The whole point of having 'an operating system' >> is that it provides an abstract interface userspace software can use >> to interact with the physical components of a different computer >> according to the functions they're supposed to be

Re: [DNG] OpenRC: was s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Timo Buhrmester wrote: > Probably because people don't want this behavior. Auto-respawn only > makes sense when you're "relying" on buggy software you already expect > to blow up, *and* are unwilling to debug it. "Try turning it off > and on again", "A restart will fix it"

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Laurent Bercot <ska-de...@skarnet.org> wrote: > On 25/09/2015 09:05, Simon Hobson wrote: >> More to the point, I'd rather have reliability over speed any day. > > How about you get both? Well yes, that's better still. > The dichotomy is a false one. People beli

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

KatolaZ wrote: > Just please try to > avoid falling in the same "everybody needs to boot-up in 12 seconds > because high availability requires so" rhetoric championed by > systemd-fanboys. More to the point, I'd rather have reliability over speed any day. If the system

Re: [DNG] [announce] Nostalgia (Was: s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems)

KatolaZ wrote: > Agree! That's why I would warmly suggest mobile devices producers to > include a pluggable nixie-tubes display like this: > > http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/images/ground_nixie_front.jpg Metaphorical "hands up" - how many of us went "gosh, how long is it since I

Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > ... or the fact that apache on the box I'm presently > using 'depends' on bind and syslog. Well in the general case*, those are not unreasonable dependencies. In the general case*, Apache needs** DNS resolution during startup, and it

Re: [DNG] the devil is in the details.

Rainer Weikusat wrote: > That's a long rant about 'systemd architecture' with an inflammatory > subject someone posted to the systemd devel list. It didn't receive any > replies more noteworthy than the original text which is 'hardly > surprising'. Ah, I'm not

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: I'll add my voice to the chorus objecting to the idea that removal of systemd is for servers only. I don't think anyone has suggested it's for servers only. But, there is an argument for picking the low hanging fruit - and that means trying to do the easy

Re: [DNG] Offtopic: pointed messages?

Mitt mitt_gr...@yahoo.com wrote: I noticed that my messages are not pointed to those who they are sent to. See image https://imgur.com/J4UaT7D Are you referring to the fact that it's not shown in it's place in the tree like the rest of the messages ? If so, then that's because your mails

Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: See above, the DNG mailing list is mostly full of discussions and not much actions, except for from a few people. That is the impression I'd got as well. Now I'll preface the next bit with ... this is not meant to be an insult or criticism, so

Re: [DNG] [arthur.ma...@internode.on.net: Re: Interesting comment from a kernel developer]

Haines Brown hai...@histomat.net wrote: Just a side note. I installed Sid on a x250 Thinkpad and then replaced systemd with sysVinit. Things seem to be working just fine, although admittedly I didn't install any desktop environment. Did you also try removing the rest of SystemD ?

Re: [DNG] [arthur.ma...@internode.on.net: Re: Interesting comment from a kernel developer]

Haines Brown hai...@histomat.net wrote: No. I installed sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils, rebooted, and then did: # apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd # echo -e '\n\nPackage: *systemd*\nPin: origin \nPin-Priority: \ -1' /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd So you

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: They did, but out of all this design by committee, hidden between all the political bullshit and bikeshedding, they also created the most brilliant, most comprehensive set of standards for quality control, package uniformity, license

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

T.J. Duchene t.j.duch...@gmail.com wrote: I used Debian Sid recently, with the apparent ability to boot using either System 5 or Systemd via Grub. The choice seems clear to me that Devuan could minimize upsteam maintenance by looking at that. The problem is not which init system to use -

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: ClamAV claims to support FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, OpenVMS, Slackware and Windows, all of which certainly don't have systemd. I've just cloned the current development repository and build it on Wheezy using a plain ./configure

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

It seems to me that it's good to have shim programs that satisfy dependencies of apps on systemd, each shim performing some systemd function. Here's why: Suppose there are 10,000 application programs (apps) for Linux, and their developers foolishly insert dependencies on systemd. If

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