Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2020-01-02 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting spiralofhope (spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com): > If an email address successfully receives a few emails but then gets > automatically unsubscribed later, could this be why? That would be a possible reason (but not on this mailing list since the implementation of DMARC migitation a bit over

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2020-01-02 Thread spiralofhope
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:47:49 -0800 Rick Moen wrote: > Ergo, often one of the places mailing > lists first notice delivery problems owing to aggressive DMARC > policies is among subscribers receiving their subscription mail on > GMail, who suddenly aren't getting some mailing list traffic, report

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-28 Thread Rick Moen
One note about my advice to OSI on December 1, 2018: That was, IIRC, my earliest attempt to advise fellow GNU Mailman listadmins about how to contend with the DMARC problem. A probably-mistaken small datum in what I said to OSI now sticks out: > Yahoo and Gmail are examples of sending domains w

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-28 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > In my wildest imagination, I never dreamed that Mailman wouldn't give > the admin control over the text assembly of the munged from. Then, possibly you can suggest how. Why don't you test your solution on a test GNU Mailman installation, and ad

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-28 Thread Steve Litt
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 00:34:09 -0800 Rick Moen wrote: > Are you in the middle of submitting a patch to GNU Mailman, then? I'm > expect they will give it appropriate consideration, and give you > expert feedback (which, possibly, the rest of us will appreciate > hearing). > > OTOH, expecting Dyne

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-28 Thread Simon Hobson
Steve Litt wrote: > ... we could at least > change the munge string from: > > Firstname Lastname via Dng > > to: > > GOES TO DNG (IRT Firstname Lastname) > > So when you do "return to sender" and it crazily puts > dng@lists.dyne.org in the To field, at least that To field won't be > disguis

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-28 Thread Rick Moen
Hi, Steve. First, apologies last night if I was a bit peeved. It's just that I really had put quite a lot of effort into making sure Dyne.org people and the Dng community understood the problem, and that my recommendation was to enable a least-bad mitigation within GNU Mailman that 'munged' _on

Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-27 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 18:19:10 -0500 Steve Litt wrote: > On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:12:21 -0800 > Rick Moen wrote: > > > Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > > > > > Seriously, this DMARC thing, or at least the way it's implemented > > > on DNG, is downright dangerous. > > > > S

[DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

2019-12-26 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > Seriously, this DMARC thing, or at least the way it's implemented on > DNG, is downright dangerous. Seriously, at the time this came up, I worked really hard, tirelessly, and thanklessly, and repeatedly, to explain that Dng was caught in a dilemm