Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Evan Hunt
On Sat, May 09, 2015 at 03:08:11PM +0200, Warren Kumari wrote: > "It is RECOMMENDED that implementations warn operators (or treat as an > error) if they attempt to add an NTA for a domain that has a > configured positive trust anchor." You still need to say what happens if the implementation decid

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread Edward Lewis
On 5/9/15, 18:27, "John Levine" wrote: >>Besides Paul's valid "what if it's 100,000?", how does an engineer >>distinguish between 100x people and 100x organized bots? > >I dunno. How do we know that the traffic for .corp and .home is from >people rather than botnets? Through forensic analysis.

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread John Levine
>Besides Paul's valid "what if it's 100,000?", how does an engineer >distinguish between 100x people and 100x organized bots? I dunno. How do we know that the traffic for .corp and .home is from people rather than botnets? >If there is a group of people using an identifier as you describe, then

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread Ted Lemon
On May 8, 2015, at 7:10 PM, Suzanne Woolf wrote: > > I share David’s reservations about this— how do we objectively and > reproducibly distinguish “people are using these in private networks” from > “people are generating arbitrary traffic to the roots for these”? I think doing so would be a f

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Paul Hoffman
On May 9, 2015, at 6:08 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: >> Two more related points: >> >> 1. In my very original comment on this matter: >> www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnsop/current/msg12614.html >> I noted one other corner case, which we might also want to clarify: >> On a related note, there

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Paul Hoffman
On May 9, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: >> In Section 2, there should be a new paragraph after the first paragraph that >> describes why the "reasonable attempt" in the first paragraph is needed to >> determine whether the attacker has partial control of the zone, or is just >> mountin

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Warren Kumari
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 6:51 PM, 神明達哉 wrote: > At Tue, 5 May 2015 17:06:04 -0400, > Warren Kumari wrote: > >> ... and now I'm replying to the rest of the comments. > > Thanks, I've confirmed that my major and minor points are addressed in > the 05 version. So I'm now basically fine with shipping

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Warren Kumari
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Dan York wrote: > Warren and Tim, > > I support the publishing of this document subject to incorporating the > various comments I’ve seen here on that list. I had a couple of specific > points but they seem to have been covered by others, so… > > On May 6, 2015, at

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Warren Kumari
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Rose, Scott W. wrote: > I think the draft is just about ready for publication as well. > > On May 5, 2015, at 5:53 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > >> This document has progressed very well and is nearly ready for publication. >> >> Related to an earlier thread about inte

Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors

2015-05-09 Thread Warren Kumari
[ Top post ] Integrating these -- 'parently I'm processing emails out of order... Thank you for your comments, I've integrated them and will post a new version soon (planning on incorporating some of Jinmei's comments before posting). On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:53 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > This d

[DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors-07.txt

2015-05-09 Thread internet-drafts
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definition and Use of DNSSEC Negative Trust Anchors Authors : Paul Ebersman

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread Edward Lewis
On 5/7/15, 11:41, "John Levine" wrote: >ICANN has a whole bunch of rules that mandate that once you've paid >the $185,000, you have to deploy a DNSSEC signed zone on multiple >servers, implement elaborate reservation and trademark claiming rules, >takedown processes, WHOIS servers, and so forth.

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread Edward Lewis
Playing "devil's advocate" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate): On 5/9/15, 3:54, "John R Levine" wrote: >Let's say we found that there's some online thing we never heard of >before, but it turns out that 100,000,000 people in India and China use >it, it uses private names in .SECR

Re: [DNSOP] Interim DNSOP WG meeting on Special Use Names: some reading material

2015-05-09 Thread Edward Lewis
On 5/9/15, 1:10, "Suzanne Woolf" wrote: >I share David’s reservations about this— how do we objectively and >reproducibly distinguish “people are using these in private networks” >from “people are generating arbitrary traffic to the roots for these”? One good characterization of the technical pr

Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-negative-trust-anchors-05.txt

2015-05-09 Thread Warren Kumari
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 2:41 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: > [ Top post ] > > Thanks for all the comments. I've integrated most of them (need > additional text for one), and am posting a new version with the > changes. > > Comments inline. > > On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Tony Finch wrote: >> I have