The burdens on our graduate students continue to increase over the 30 years I have been in academics. Now our students no only have to publish and get grants they also have to run "entire lecture courses" and "attend professional workshops" on teaching (note that both workshops and lecture courses were plural). In addition, many granting agencies are now expecting our graduate students to have broad outreach and mentoring activities. I know we cannot turn back the clock and while I may be a dinosaur, I try to get the small number of grad students that are in my lab to do high quality research and publish that work in top journals (yes plural) and apply for important grants (e.g., NSF-DIG). My experience has been that if they do this they can land an excellent postdoc and then a solid position at a good university. It is true that not all made it to Duke (in fact none did), but at least they typically were successful at garnering tenure track jobs at a range of good places.
Walter Carson ________________________________________ From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Russell L. Burke [russell.l.bu...@hofstra.edu] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:09 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] "The Audacity of Graduate School" -Knowledge of Today Documentary I have served on many faculty search committees for positions at a largely undergraduate teaching-focused university--the sort of school that hires a large fraction of recent grads and post-docs into tenure-track positions. We specifically look for people who showed an interest in teaching early on, and note that serving as a lab TA and giving guest lectures means little to us. We want people that have actually run lecture courses. Surprisingly, we get a fair number of those, such as people who took over a summer course or a special session course. We also look for people who attended professional workshops in innovative teaching techniques. After that, we look for pubs and grants. We don't need to see a huge amount of either, but we need to see some for a person to make a short list. Dr. Russell Burke Professor Donald E. Axinn Distinguished Professor in Ecology and Conservation Department of Biology Hofstra University 516.463.7272 -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Judith S. Weis Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 10:31 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] "The Audacity of Graduate School" -Knowledge of Today Documentary In my experience, search committees also look for individuals who have published while in graduate school. This usually requires motivation and efforts by both the student and the advisor. > I'm very sorry to see that a few folks have had bad experiences in > grad school. Many of us had very happy and productive times as > graduate students. But I've seen enough over the years to recognize > that faults in advisors, or in advisees, or both can result in > mediocre to bad outcomes - most often for the advisee, but sometimes for the > advisor as well. > > I did, however, want to comment on the statement that > > "When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as > everyone else (with) a degree." > > > If you intend to pursue an academic career in research, nothing could > be further than the truth. In cases where large numbers of recently > minted Ph.D.'s or post-docs apply for several jobs in the same field, > often the same, relatively few individuals get to short lists and are > interviewed across the country. Applicants whose Ph.D. research (and > subsequent work) are perceived to have significant, novel implications > - and be scalable to future endeavors, and fundable by NSF or other > agencies or foundations - are much more likely to be interviewed and > offered jobs. That is what search committees look for. Not that search > committees never make mistakes; they do, sometimes egregiously. A > Ph.D. gets you in the door to submit an application, but you need > excellent research, combined with strong writing and oral presentation > skills, ability to think on your feet, and empathy to interact well > with students and colleagues, to have a real chance of success at > landing a job at first- or second-tier universities. > > > Thomas J. Givnish > Henry Allan Gleason Professor of Botany University of Wisconsin > > givn...@wisc.edu > http://botany.wisc.edu/givnish/Givnish/Welcome.html > > > > > On 10/18/12, brandi gartland wrote: >> As I am currently deciding on whether to enter a PhD program vs. >> consulting work/career position, I am finding this feed quite >> informative and wanted to respond to: >> >> "When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as >> everyone else a degree. There are many successful scientists without >> Ph.D.'s but many more with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed." >> >> I immediately thought of sharing this documentary, as it illustrates >> this very point as well as other ideas: >> >> http://www.knowledgeoftoday.org/2012/02/education-college-conspiracy- >> exposed.html >> >> -It illustrates how the U.S. educational system is not what it used >> to be and "exposes the facts and truth about America's college >> education system. It was was produced over a six-month period by >> NIA's team of expert Austrian economists with the help of thousands >> of NIA members who contributed their ideas and personal stories for >> the film. NIA believes the U.S. college education system is a scam >> that turns vulnerable young Americans into debt slaves for life." >> >> >> Best wishes for us all in life, love, work, and happiness. >> >> Brandi >> M.S. Candidate Avian Sciences >> University of California, Davis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700 >> > From: jane....@gmail.com >> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] "The Audacity of Graduate School" >> > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey >> > <bugoc...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as >> everyone else >> > > - a degree. There are many successful scientists without Ph.D.'s >> > > but >> many >> > > more with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed. >> > >> > Can you make a rough estimate of the relative frequencies of each. >> > >> > > Also, to emphasize how little we get out of a Ph.D. (a lot is >> > > stolen from us), we don't get credit for our work >> or >> > > publications because the professor always gets credit for >> > > everything >> we do >> > > while in their lab as a student or postdoc (which is something I >> > > am >> fighting >> > > on other fronts - I call it institutionalized intellectual >> > > property >> theft). >> > >> > Isn't that taken care of by the first author/last author distinction? >> > A PI may get some undeserved credit, but that's different from the >> > student not getting credit. The paper is still cited as Student et al. >> > Or are you talking about taking the student's idea outright? >> > >> > BTW, if you believe that grad students are employees to the point >> > of needing a union and thinking of their advisor as their boss, I >> > would point out that people who do creative work as employees >> > rarely keep the rights to their work. Typically, the intellectual >> > property belongs to their employer ("work done for hire"). Isn't it >> > better to say that grad students are not employees? >> > >> > -- >> > ------------- >> > Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D. >> > Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA co-founder, >> > www.worldbeyondborders.org >> > >> > "Those who say it cannot be done should not interfere with those >> > who are doing it." --attributed to Robert Heinlein, George Bernard >> > Shaw and others > > -- >
