-----Original Message----- 
        From: Jolley, Leonard - Beltsville, MD 
        Sent: Thu 1/25/2007 12:36 PM 
        To: William Adair 
        Cc: 
        Subject: RE: Ecological Sites vs. Ecological Systems
        
        
        Hello Susan and Bill,
         
        The USDA NRCS ecological site description concept is quite distinct and 
different from the Natureserve product. Ecological site descriptions are 
developed in conjunction with the National soil survey program.
         
        Ecological sites have their roots in the 'range site' concept, and 
range sites did owe a great deal to the vision of rangeland ecology articulated 
by Dyksterhuis in his 1949 and subsequent papers.
         
        Two papers that better describe the current rationale for ecological 
sites are:
         
        Stringham et al. March 2003. State and Transition modeling: An 
ecological process approach. J. Range Management 56:106-113 
         
        Bestelmeyer et al. March 2003. Development and use of state and 
transition models for rangelands. J. Range Management 56: 114-126.
         
        Ecological sites are defined as:   

        "A distinctive kind of land with specific physical characteristics that 
differs

        from other kinds of land in its ability to produce a distinctive kind 
and amount of vegetation."

        Brandon Bestelmeyer with USDA ARS at the Jornada Experimental Range has 
pointed out (in a personal communication):

         "Ecological Systems (ES) are sort of an ad hoc level in the NVC 
hierarchy that was produced for mapping, attempts to map plant associations led 
to too much inaccuracy, so the classes mapped were broadened. Ecological Site 
Descriptions (ESDs) are climo-edaphic units of land that may support a range of 
plant communities embedded within several alternative states that differ in 
ecosystem functions (e.g., nutrient cycling, hydrology). The biggest difference 
is that ecological system constructs are based on existing vegetation rather 
than potential vegetation and ecological systems are very broad. 

        In our experience in the Chihuahuan Desert, ecological system systems 
classes describe gross vegetation structure (such as semidesert grassland or 
shrubland) that 1) homogenize/ignore important differences in vegetation 
structure from a management perspective (e.g., pristine grasslands and shrub 
invaded/at risk states within a “semidesert grassland” ES) and 2) include 
both historical shrublands as well as shrublands representing degraded, former 
grasslands in the same ES class.

        So the crosswalk between ES and ESD classes is that ES classes MAY 
represent classes of communities, combinations of communities, alternative 
vegetation states, or combinations of alternative states occurring within one 
or more ESD classes, depending on how ES classes were defined in an area. In my 
opinion, ES classes are great for visualizing gross vegetation structure 
variation at a regional to national scale, but the vegetation state and 
community classes in ESDs represent potential and functional attributes and are 
more useful for scenario-building, assessment, and the generation of monitoring 
designs and monitoring hypotheses at landscape scales."

        I hope this is of help.

        Thanks,

        Leonard Jolley  Ph.D.

        Rangeland Ecologist

        Resource Inventory and Assessment Division

        USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service

        Beltsville, MD 20705

        (301) 504-2344

                -----Original Message----- 
                From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news on 
behalf of William Adair 
                Sent: Wed 1/24/2007 7:05 PM 
                To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU 
                Cc: 
                Subject: Re: Ecological Sites vs. Ecological Systems
                
                

                Hello Susan,
                
                The two approaches were developed separately and somewhat 
independently, and
                (to my knowledge) there is no explicit hierarchy linking the 
two.  I'm not
                aware of any formal (or "official") methods that have been 
proposed for
                translating Ecological Sites into Ecological Systems, or vice 
versa.
                
                ------
                
                The NRCS Ecological Sites concept is very site-specific.  I 
have been told
                that this manuscript provides the foundation for the NRCS 
Ecological Sites
                concept:
                
                DYKSTERHUIS, E.J. - Condition and management of rangeland based 
on
                quantitative ecology. J. Range Mgmt., 1949, 2: 104-115.
                
                Personally, I've found that every range conservationist seems 
to have
                his/her own idea of what the term "Ecological Sites" means.
                
                The Grazing Lands Technology Institute's "Interpreting 
Indicators of
                Rangeland Health" is probably the best place to go to see how 
the NRCS
                Ecological Sites concept is (supposed to be) applied:
                http://www.glti.nrcs.usda.gov/
                
                ------
                
                In contrast, NatureServe developed the Ecological Systems 
concept as an
                intermediate level in the Federal Geographic Data Committee 
(FGDC) National
                Vegetation Classification System (NVC) hierarchy.  This 
development was in
                part inspired by problems that arose when folks (like our lab) 
tried to map
                NVC Alliances and Associations across broad regions with remote 
sensing
                data.  You can access the document that describes the 
Ecological System
                concept here:
                http://www.natureserve.org/publications/usEcologicalsystems.jsp
                
                ------
                
                For a good general overview of vegetation and land cover 
classification
                concepts, I encourage you to check out the material on the ESA 
Panel on
                Vegetation Classification's web page:
                http://www.esa.org/vegweb/
                
                Please note that the NVC standard is likely to change soon.  
This document
                summarizes some of the proposed changes:
                http://www.esapubs.org/bulletin/current/webpdfs_jan07/other1.pdf
                
                The draft mentioned on that website is located here:
                
http://www.bio.unc.edu/faculty/peet/lab/temp/FGDCDraftStd_Aug2006.pdf
                
                Hope this helps...
                
                happy trails
                bill adair
                
                Utah State University Remote Sensing / GIS Laboratories
                Chaos is not just a theory -- it's a way of life
                
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
                [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Susan_Geer?=
                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:22 PM
                To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
                Subject: Ecological Sites vs. Ecological Systems
                
                What is the relationship of the "Ecological Site", a term used 
by the NRCS
                and BLM that is based on soil maps but includes vegetation 
characteristics
                to the "Ecological System", a term used by Natureserve?  Is 
there a
                hierarchy, and can one be converted to the other?  Thanks.
                

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