Ecolog:
While I do agree with almost everything that has been said in these posts as
well as those responses received off-list (50% negative, 50% positive;
pretty good for me), I hope to ride on Kevin's coattails too, in addition to
high-fiving Kali again, and clear up some confusion an off-list respondent
enlightened me about. The respondent said, in part, "I simply found both
your comments to consist of accusations about ecologists being guilty
accusing others ("fingerwagging" and "insults"). What do those
complaints have to do with the ESA meeting being more open to the general
public and better covered in the media? How do they contribute to better
public understanding of what ecologists do?"
First, I was thinking about the generic problem, not about the ESA, but I
can see how, because of the context of Kali's and others' remarks, how I
could have left that impression. It was not my intention to indict ESA,
anyone in ESA, or "all" ecologists without exception; I think the
respondent's reaction erred in the interpretation of my remarks--I don't
believe that anything I said justified an interpretation that I was accusing
any particular person or entity.
I suggest that my "accusations" of fingerwagging and insulting language hit
the mark all too often; those not guilty should not feel gored by them. In
fact I presume that most ecologists who are subscribers to this list are NOT
guilty of such transgressions, but neither do I doubt that a significant
number may be. It is that fraction to whom my remarks are directed. I am,
and was, well aware that some might feel a sting of guilt; hell, I am not
without sin in this department either. Time was, I may have been among the
worst offenders.
But none of us who shoot off our mouths and write in public should curl up
into a fetal position of denial or simply lash out when criticized. Too
often the wails of the wounded serve to chill such discussions with
accusations of "inappropriate" behavior. That stifles change. Worst of all,
it keeps students like Kali from speaking their minds. That could open up
another debate: What keeps students from speaking up? Are they encouraged by
their professors and peers or discouraged? Why should they be relegated to
the card table in the kitchen? What do students at ESA have to say?
I hope I have made it clear that I think it is high time that "ecologists"
took a good, hard look in the mirror (or at our portrait behind the drapes)
and started finding ways to examine the impact of what we do say in public
and how we do it.
Either there is room for improvement--significant improvement--or there
isn't. That can be the subject of reasoned debate. I break the arrow.
WT
PS to Kevin: Is my impression that the work of fire ecologists is largely
ignored by firefighters valid or not?
"If you want a man's cooperation, it's best not to threaten him!" --Ralph
Yarborough
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Robertson" <krobert...@ttrs.org>
To: "Wayne Tyson" <landr...@cox.net>; <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: [ECOLOG-L] Reply to: 'a few thousand ecologists meet... does
anybody know or care?' -- A perhaps radical suggestion
I appreciate Kali's post and the posts that have followed. As a researcher
at a research station with a commitment to outreach and extension to
landowners and the general public, I can say that bringing ecology to people
can be done, but it takes a lot of hard work. In particular, the effort has
to carefully consider its target audience, just as an advertiser does in
selling a product. Although opening the doors of ESA meetings to the public
is an admirable thought, I do not think that many people would come, and of
those who come few would understand or appreciate most of what they see. To
be honest, I felt that way during the first few ESA meetings I attended as
an undergraduate and graduate student. It would probably reinforce the
perception that ecologists are elitists who speak their own language present
barriers to understanding. The simple reason is that ESA meetings are
designed for professional ecologists, which is appropriate.
I think if ESA were to get serious about public outreach, it would need to
have special conferences or workshops designed for that purpose. There may
be such efforts of which I am not aware. They would need to be local or
regional rather than national so that people could easily attend them, free
(supported by external funding sources) with free snacks and coffee, have a
theme of interest to some subset of the community, and contain presentations
and posters especially designed for that audience to make connections to
things that attendees can relate to in their lives and professions.
Organizations such as ours (Tall Timbers Research Station), The Longleaf
Alliance, etc. do these kinds of workshops and seminars fairly regularly,
and they are well attended.
The interesting thing about them is we invariably learn as much or more as
the attendees by listening to people who live at the interface where our
concepts are supposed to be making their impact, whether in a home, a farm,
a nearby state forest, etc. To me that is the most important part of Kali's
post, that ecologists would be greatly broadened and educated by breaking
down the walls. I know I have since leaving the halls of academia and
interacting with foresters, hunters, agency managers, etc. in conjunction
with our research efforts, and I know my research and writing is better
because of it.
Kevin
Kevin Robertson, PhD
Fire Ecologist
Tall Timbers Research Station and Land Conservancy
13093 Henry Beadel Drive
Tallahassee, FL 32312
krobert...@ttrs.org
office: 850-893-4153 ext. 254
mobile: 850-508-5499
-----Original Message-----
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:57 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Reply to: 'a few thousand ecologists meet... does
anybody know or care?' -- A perhaps radical suggestion
Ecolog:
I hope that the details and the messages between the lines are not lost from
Kali's most courageous and intelligent first post. I hope she keeps it up.
I also hope that the discussion is not sidetracked from the principles
involved to a few (or a few thousand) cases where something simply went
wrong.
I do hope that greater attention is paid to the issues of deeply-imbedded
attitudes that undermine the understanding, by as wide a "public" as
possible of what ecology is and is not.
While it may be true that "most people" are ignorant of ecology, they are
not all, as Kali points out, stupid. In order to convey the impression to
those who, like Kali's mother, do absorb truth quickly (or, for that matter,
slowly), that ecology is not out to "take jobs away" or other nonsense, but
is dedicated to maintaining and improving a better world for all. Calling or
implying that "most people" are stupid or even ignorant, intentionally or
unintentionally, may not be the best way to convey.
Might opening up discussion with folks like Kali's mother might be something
of a start?
WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Madhusudan Katti" <mka...@csufresno.edu>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Reply to: 'a few thousand ecologists meet... does
anybody know or care?' -- A perhaps radical suggestion
Thank you, Kali, for not keeping your mouth shut! You make some very
important points and I love your suggestion of having more opportunities
for local public to participate for free. A free family ecology day like
the science day they have at AAAS meetings would be a fantastic way to
engage with the public. This particular meeting does have a couple of free
events for the public, but I don't think they've been advertised well
enough to actually draw many members of the public.
As for media coverage, a local science reporter, JP, who heard about this
meeting via someone's tweet about my blog post, is keen to cover the
meeting - but got a real runaround trying to contact someone for
credentials! JP left several comments describing his/her efforts, and the
rather inadequate media outreach efforts from ESA - I hope Nadine Lymn and
anyone else from among ESA officials read the comments and think about how
to improve communications. Here again is the link to my post where you
will find the comments:
http://leafwarbler.posterous.com/a-few-thousand-ecologists-meet-in-the-city-to
We clearly need to do a better job of outreach, and I am glad my post has
generated some discussion about the issue.
Madhu
__________________
Dr. Madhusudan Kat
Associate Professor, Dept of Biology
California State University, Fresno
On Aug 8, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Kali Bird <yours.is.the.ea...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have never posted to Ecolog before, but I felt I couldn't keep my mouth
shut about this one.
First, I don't think we can necessarily know why the news doesn't pick
up
on ESA more. Likely, it's because the general public doesn't care, but
perhaps it may be that they are tired feeling like ecologists tell them
that
their lifestyles and values are wrong. Personally, I think it's because
people don't care. In my experience speaking with the public, I always
proffer an explanation of what I do immediately after saying that I am a
'microbial ecologist,' because most people I speak with don't even know
what
ecology is.
Second, if these thousands of ecologists really want to engage the
public, how about letting the locals come to ESA? I know that
non-members
are invited to attend, but honestly, you have to be wealthy or have a
wealthy grant pay for you to come to be able to pay 500$ and take off
days
to a week from work to be involved in the meeting. My mother reads my
Frontiers magazine religiously. She loves it. She is also part of a
'sustainability' group at her international corporation. She lives very
close to Austin, has the ability to take time off of work, but as a
middle-class citizen, simply cannot afford it. If these thousands of
ecologists are really interested in engaging with the public, how about
creating events at ESA for the locals that are affordable? My mother has
no
scientific background, but is smart, learns fast, and loves to learn.
There
are a lot of people like this everywhere we have meetings. Yet we preach
engagement with the public from our over-air-conditioned conference
rooms,
doors closed and barred to those we wish to engage with. Phenomenal.
I know our over-air conditioned convention centers cost a lot of money
to
rent and ESA is an expensive venture to host, but surely we can create
some
sort of scholarship fund for locals, special free events for public
engagement (THIS is how you get in the news), or even a lottery for
one-day
passes to attend talks. Let's help people understand what in the world
it
is we do. If I could have afforded to send my mom to ESA, I would have
done
it in a heartbeat. She would have loved it and told all her friends,
co-workers, and her church group all the things she learned. Do we want
to
engage more with people across religious boundaries? In the heart of a
red
state, what a boon actually engaging with the religious public would be.
Kali Bird
Graduate Student
Kellogg Biological Station,
Michigan State University
