Wendee (The only reason I changed the subject line is because of my filing system; feel free to change it back):
Waaaal, I think one has to be careful about cases. Personally, I find it repugnant to hunt for any reason other than food, and I would never suggest hunting as a means of fund raising for any creature near the top of the food chain and not in abundance with respect to its habitat. I was joking about primate hunting. I also find it repugnant that billionaires are the only ones to be permitted to hunt bighorns and other "trophy" species. While money might be useful for habitat preservation and restoration, putting money into a system can have its own corrupting influences. I was raised as a hunter/conservationist, and in my professional life I have seen the results on, for example, deer populations as a result of predator hunting (e.g., mountain lions), e.g., booms and busts with corresponding disastrous effects on forage and other plant species, soils and forests, grasslands and other habitats. The problem with hunting is that it has morphed into a kind of psychopathology. Some European traditions used to cull older and defective animals rather than "trophies." In the USA, there needs to be a renewal of hunting traditions away from a bunch of drunks making wildlands into a congested war zone every hunting season. (Some may cry that this is an exaggeration, but I submit that, as a summary, that it is more true than untrue.) Nonetheless, I suggest that hunting and fishing, etc., be studied by ecologists (not just wildlife managers) rather than rejected out of hand. For example, in areas of the western USA where cattle and sheep are destructive to the "range" (most of it), if landowners could be permitted to reduce certain prey species to levels that would preserve their available forage, vegetation could be in better shape and given a chance to advance on alien species that thrive on domestic stock damage to the range, such as trampling. This is a BIG issue that can't be resolved in a few emails, but it might be taken to a point on ecolog. WT At 03:37 PM 8/13/2007, WENDEE HOLTCAMP wrote: >This is a really interesting point. I wrote an article about Louisiana black >bears about a year ago, a threatened subspecies of American black bear. I >spent a week in the field while biologists relocated bear mommas and cubs to >a different habitat in efforts to expand their range. One comment by one of >the people there that week was that "the best thing that could happen to the >LA black bear is to make it a game species." Hunters channel a lot of funds >that ultimately (usually) go into conservation. > >I'd be curious to know how MUCH money exactly has been channeled into >conservation through hunting of various species - particularly somewhat rare >species hunted in a limited manner? And in what types of scenarios does >funding generated from hunting/fishing of rare species outweigh the >conservation efforts obtained by listing the species as threatened or >endangered? > >I know, for example, in Texas they give out a very small number of very >high-priced permits to hunt bighorn sheep - and as I understand it, a lot of >this money goes to conservation/management. I've been told the species is >rare enough to be listed as threatened, but as far as I know no "stink" has >been raised about the issue by any group. I would think that the money from >hunting a few benefits the overall conservation more than putting it on the >ESA. > >Likewise, Guadalupe Bass, Texas' state fish is nearly extinct IF You >consider hybrids not really Guads. Pretty much all Guadalupe bass have >hybridized with their introduced cousins - smallmouth and largemouths. >(There is one pure population which, ironically, was introduced outside of >its range). But listing this species on the ESA would not only be an utterly >logistical nightmare (distinguishing them from stocked fish? Nearly >impossible if you're talking about genetics and not morphology) it would >probably NOT be the most beneficial thing for the species. Any thoughts? Any >other similar cases? This has the makings of a great article :) > >Wendee > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Wendee Holtcamp * Freelance Writer * Photographer * Bohemian > http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com >Bohemian Adventures Blog * http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com >The Fish Wars: A Christian Evolutionist http://thefishwars.blogspot.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Online Writing Course Starts Sep 15. Sign Up Now! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:43 PM >To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU >Subject: ECOLOGY Conservation Principles and Transformations Re: primate >watching > >Bill and Forum: > >Speaking of weak analogies, primate hunting may not be a sufficiently >large sport for the duck-hunter analogy to be of much value, but one >of the most insightful ecologists I have ever known, Dick Vogl, used >to lecture widely on the value of the Ducks Unlimited approach for >habitat preservation--an ironic but useful route to success, >especially when heavy industries with political clout tend to like >filling wetlands for their oil and gas depots, etc. Few took his >eco-logic seriously, many rejecting it out-of-hand. > >Then there's the just-beginning-to-be-explored "transformational" >concept (struggling though it may be). To illustrate, Dayton Hyde >once told me that he finally figured out that probably the real >reason he took up hunting ducks was to get a closer look at their >incredible beauty. He told of the moment this dawned on him. Having >picked up the corpse of a duck he had just shot, he was struck by the >iridescent colors and beautiful form of the bird, and realized that >he had just diminished that beauty (not to mention the structural and >real violence used to appreciate it). He realized that the real >beauty was in the live duck and its environment--earth, water, and >the fire in its heart and mind, once beating and cycling much like >his own. He resolved, in that moment, to work in defense of >waterfowl, and that decision paid off handsomely for him, internally >and financially.* A transformational moment? Hunting: a necessary or >useful transition? I could tell you similar tales . . . > >WT > >* This, of course, is my version of Hyde's story; it may have >suffered in the retelling, for which I apologize in advance. > > >At 03:40 AM 8/13/2007, William Silvert wrote: > >This is an interesting idea, but the analogy to bird-watching is weak. >There > >are only a few primates that are serously endangered, mostly the great >apes, > >and I think that anyone motivated by life lists would simply head for > >Madagascar and count lemurs. I suspect that getting a lot of spotters into > >the field would have a negative impact on the species being spotted. > > > >It is worth keeping in mind that one of the most successful measures in >bird > >conservation is the habitat preservation by Ducks Unlimited, whose motive >is > >to shoot ducks! > > > >Bill Silvert > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "WENDEE HOLTCAMP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU> > >Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:19 PM > >Subject: primate watching > > > > > > >I read something recently where someone was pondering whether we could > > > create a system of primate watching, similar to birdwatching, as a way >to > > > channel funds into primate conservation. So instead of life lists for > > > birds > > > (or in addition to) they would have life lists for primates. I thought > > > this > > > was really interesting and was just going to try to pitch an article on > > > it, > > > but now I can't seem to find it anywhere - I didn't find it from a >google > > > search and I can't remember if I saw this in the news or a scientific > > > journal TOC, or what. I am pretty sure it was a primatologist or > > > biologist/ecologist making the statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this ring any bells for anyone? If so please contact me offlist > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Wendee > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Wendee Holtcamp * Freelance Writer * Photographer * Bohemian > > > > > > <http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com/> > > > http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com > > > Bohemian Adventures Blog * <http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com/> > > > http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com > > > > > > The Fish Wars: A Christian Evolutionist > > > <http://thefishwars.blogspot.com/> > > > http://thefishwars.blogspot.com > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Online Writing Course Starts Sep 15. Sign Up Now! > > > > > > > > > > > >
