Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Nicola Larosa
> Event-driven programming is a narrow, over-emphasized slice of the > software experience, No, this is going too far. Event-driven, asynchronous programming is not limited to GUIs: it is instead a powerful, if a little invasive ;-) , concurrency model. Anyone who "got" Twisted ( http://twistedmat

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Toby Donaldson
Jeffrey Elkner wrote: >On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 01:59 -0700, Toby Donaldson wrote: > > >>When I taught VB (Visual BASIC), however, the GUIs were great, and >>students almost universally said the course was more interesting and >>enjoyable because of them. In part, they liked the fact that their >>p

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Scott David Daniels
Arthur wrote: > The author communicates respect for his audience. He says things once. > Even hard things. It doesn't mean he expects me to get it on reading it > once, but we understand each other I think - there is nothing stopping me > from reading it five or six times if I need to. Him repea

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Chuck Allison
Hello Jeffrey, Friday, June 3, 2005, 7:08:29 AM, you wrote: JE> I "taught" VB for a year, and was amazed to find out that I made it JE> through the entire year without either myself or my students (naturally) JE> learning much of anything about programming. To be fair, that is not JE> the fault

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Arthur
> Behalf Of Radenski, Atanas > > Behalf Of Bob Noonan > > GUI programming is relatively complex. To understand it, one needs to > understand event handling. I have hard time explaining event handling to > beginners and see that beginners have hard time understanding it. While > GUI programming

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Jeffrey Elkner
On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 01:59 -0700, Toby Donaldson wrote: > When I taught VB (Visual BASIC), however, the GUIs were great, and > students almost universally said the course was more interesting and > enjoyable because of them. In part, they liked the fact that their > programs looked like real progr

[Edu-sig] python for CS I

2005-06-03 Thread Christine A. Shannon
I thought I might add a few comments since we at Centre College have been teaching Python in CS I for a long time. We use Java in CS II but I often let students use Python in subsequent courses for assignments in everything from algorithms to operating systems to AI. I have a research project g

Re: [Edu-sig] A case against GUIs in intro CS :-)

2005-06-03 Thread Toby Donaldson
> The problem is that GUI programming is given significant coverage in > most mainstream introductory CS textbooks. Open an arbitrary Java-based > textbook and you are likely to face GUIs from almost the beginning. > Sample programs and exercises often come with GUI shells that obscure > their