Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-24 Thread kirby urner
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 2:38 AM, kirby urner wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > >> OK, but I think we agree APL is a professional language that gets >> plenty of respect from the professional community. > >

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread kirby urner
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Scott David Daniels wrote: << SNIP >> > This issue is why I am so not in love with fancy aids in generating > code; I want to read what the original programmer wrote, not the pile > of garble that got blasted out when he pushed some buttons and dragged > some box

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread Scott David Daniels
Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 23.03.2009, at 10:38, kirby urner wrote: I think [...] that there's a backlash against lexical coding as that means typing Not at all, in my opinion. It's not against having to type, it's about covering distance one step at a time. I like to compare the issue to

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread kirby urner
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 23.03.2009, at 10:38, kirby urner wrote: > >> Not really directed at Turtle Art proposal no. >> >> I think [...] that there's a backlash against lexical coding as that means >> typing > > Not at all, in my opinion. It's not against havi

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread Bert Freudenberg
On 23.03.2009, at 10:38, kirby urner wrote: Not really directed at Turtle Art proposal no. I think [...] that there's a backlash against lexical coding as that means typing Not at all, in my opinion. It's not against having to type, it's about covering distance one step at a time. I li

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread kirby urner
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote: << SNIP >> >>> = Edward >> = Kirby > = Edward = Kirby >>> There are several programming languages popular among non-professional >>> programmers. These languages get no respect in the professional >>> community, and neither do their

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:40 PM, kirby urner wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > << SNIP >> > >> We need a language-independent way of teaching programming concepts. I >> have an idea for one based on Turtle Art, which represents programs as >> trees, not texts. M

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-22 Thread kirby urner
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: << SNIP >> > We need a language-independent way of teaching programming concepts. I > have an idea for one based on Turtle Art, which represents programs as > trees, not texts. Most programming languages have to transform texts > to trees be

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-22 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:14 PM, kirby urner wrote: > One of our Wanderers (think tank in Portland) wrote: > > """ > I expect that teaching Python/Perl/Ruby/Java in the 2000s will be > viewed with the same scorn in the 2030's. The problem with "flavor > of the month" languages is that they are pas

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-22 Thread kirby urner
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Scott David Daniels wrote: << SNIP >> > You should definitely take a look at > > http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/03/building-a-better-way-of-understanding-science.ars > Thanks for this Scott. I like the concluding somewhat shy request that peers use vi

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-21 Thread Scott David Daniels
kirby urner wrote: At the other end, Python gives me a language I can talk to another programmer in, and I can also run parts of the discussion on a machine. There are other languages that do that, of course, but none that are so easily communicated to a "random other" without spending more time

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-21 Thread kirby urner
> At the other end, Python gives me a language I can talk to another > programmer in, and I can also run parts of the discussion on a machine. > There are other languages that do that, of course, but none that are > so easily communicated to a "random other" without spending more time > talking abo

Re: [Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-21 Thread Scott David Daniels
kirby urner wrote: One of our Wanderers (think tank in Portland) wrote: """ I expect that teaching Python/Perl/Ruby/Java in the 2000s will be viewed with the same scorn in the 2030's. The problem with "flavor of the month" languages is that they are passe a month later, as better abstractions ap

[Edu-sig] As We May Think: What will we automate?

2009-03-21 Thread kirby urner
One of our Wanderers (think tank in Portland) wrote: """ I expect that teaching Python/Perl/Ruby/Java in the 2000s will be viewed with the same scorn in the 2030's. The problem with "flavor of the month" languages is that they are passe a month later, as better abstractions appear. Such evanescent