On 30-Nov-06, at 4:50 PM, David Boddie wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:20:51 -0800, Dethe Elza wrote:
>
>> Oberon, Self, and Hypercard allowed you to get "behind" the widgets
>> to see the code they would invoke, and the code that created them.
>> HTML and the current desktop-widget tools do this
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:20:51 -0800, Dethe Elza wrote:
>Oberon, Self, and Hypercard allowed you to get "behind" the widgets
>to see the code they would invoke, and the code that created them.
>HTML and the current desktop-widget tools do this too. It requires
>some additional work on t
On 30-Nov-06, at 3:44 PM, David Boddie wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:29:30 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
>
> [Constrained objects and persistence]
>
>> In particular cases it might be more reasonable. For instance,
>> consider
>> glade (http://glade.gnome.org/) -- it's an XML description of a GUI
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:29:30 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
[Constrained objects and persistence]
>In particular cases it might be more reasonable. For instance, consider
>glade (http://glade.gnome.org/) -- it's an XML description of a GUI.
>For an application that uses Glade and given an edi
Ian Bicking wrote:
> There's certainly tree-like structures in memory (and pipeline, and
> cubbies, and all sorts of other data structures). And it's entirely
> reasonable to create a browser for these objects, where you can inspect
> and traverse those in-memory objects.
>
> Where that curren
From: Ian Bicking
> I think availability of non-programming information on the
> laptop is
> really important too. But Arthur, this is the Python Edu-SIG,
> what do
> you expect me to write about here?
Whatever you like. You've earned that.
But in my way, and by my own assessment, so have I
Arthur wrote:
> As a point of real-world reference, I have communicated a bit with my
> son - working now in the South Pacific equivalent of the bush, for the
> U.S. Peace Corps - about OLPC, i.e. the availablility of inexpensive
> laptops that can used in an environment without ready access to
David Boddie wrote:
>> There's some similar issues being considered for OLPC. Specifically the
>> laptop has a "view source" key, which (unsurprisingly) lets you view the
>> source of what you are doing. What that means is application (aka
>> "Activity") specific, but a general Python solution is
Ian Bicking wrote:
> There's some similar issues being considered for OLPC. Specifically the
> laptop has a "view source" key, which (unsurprisingly) lets you view the
> source of what you are doing. What that means is application (aka
> "Activity") specific, but a general Python solution is cal
Arthur wrote:
>What are we talking about here?
>
>I know, why be nasty.
>
>
Certainly not intending to insult Ian, whose reputation as a leader in
the Python community has been earned form the ground up, by Good Works,
in the best tradition of an Open source community
And maybe I simp
Ian Bicking wrote:
>Of course that takes a lot of space, and OLPC is a considerable step
>backwards in terms of resources. With 128Mb of RAM (and not really any
>feasible swap) we have to be very conservative. This also can't have
>any overhead if a child isn't using it.
>
>
Sure is difficu
Ian-
Yep, that sounds about right to me -- I like how you phrase "That will
help you see why the program acts like it does, but not how it got to be
how it is.". And that is why modifying complex systems like event driven
GUIs of significant size is non-trivial, and involves using some analogue
Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
> Ian-
>
> Thanks for the comment.
>
> I think the issue you raise is a really difficult one to resolve. If I
> understand the general issue correctly, when you are looking at a GUI
> interface with underlying processes, and a person wants to "see the code",
> the quest
Ian-
Thanks for the comment.
I think the issue you raise is a really difficult one to resolve. If I
understand the general issue correctly, when you are looking at a GUI
interface with underlying processes, and a person wants to "see the code",
the question is what to show them, and also wheth
Arthur-
Fair enough criticism of the critique, and thanks for the perspective.
You made a very good point I will need to meditate on. Thank you.
Sadly, nothing about PataPata experiment really progressed far enough in
terms of a user base to, in even just an "action research" experimental
way,
Hi,
On Nov 27, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> There's some similar issues being considered for OLPC.
> Specifically the
> laptop has a "view source" key, which (unsurprisingly) lets you
> view the
> source of what you are doing. What that means is application (aka
> "Activity") spec
Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
> Just as an FYI, as a way to wind up the PataPata project (or at least one
> phase of it), I wrote a lengthy postmortem critique of the PataPata
> project to date, plus ideas for where to go from here. You can read the
> critique by following this link:
>
> "PataPata cr
Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
>For reference, the PataPata project is/was """an experiment to support
>educational constructivism on the Python platform, inspired by "Squeak"
>and "Self", but going beyond those in a Pythonic way."""
>
>
Was PataPata an experiment in education or an experiment in tec
The email message referenced in the PataPata SourceForge email archive I
linked to is somehow cut off about two-thirds of the way through. Here is
a link to a complete version I just put up on the web site. Sorry about
any inconvenience.
PataPata critique: the good, the bad, the ugly
http
Just as an FYI, as a way to wind up the PataPata project (or at least one
phase of it), I wrote a lengthy postmortem critique of the PataPata
project to date, plus ideas for where to go from here. You can read the
critique by following this link:
"PataPata critique: the good, the bad, the ugly"
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