Re: [EM] RE : RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Brian Olson
In the outlying areas of two or more color fuzz the mixed colors are effectively getting tied all the time and a random winner among the tied winners chosen, thus random fuzz. These areas usually occur when the center of the population is more than one standard deviation away from all of the

Re: [EM] RE : [Fwd: Condorcet and the later-no-harm criterion]

2006-12-22 Thread Dave Ketchum
Seems we are more into skills in writing English, than into programming. We have 15 voters, with an election summable as: 7C>5B - with original vote 7B>5A - unchanged 7A>5C - " - completes a cycle that is a tie. 8B>7C - modified vote that makes B winner with NO cycle. Here

[EM] RE : RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Warren Smith
The (now with random tiebreaking) Bolson pictures pretty interesting. Approval with mean-as-threshold (at least with Bolson's utility function) is doing some pretty weird stuff! But "approval with poll" looks very well behaved, at least in these examples (although I do not think it'll be that nice

Re: [EM] RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Brian Olson
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Warren Smith wrote: > Approval with mean-as-threshold seemed to "look bad" in the sense that > it could prevent some candidates from ever winning, and make their winning > regions > lie far away from them if they existed. (This is assuming I believe the > pictures > I saw,

[EM] RE : [Fwd: Condorcet and the later-no-harm criterion]

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Michael, --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > According to wikitest.electorama.com, later-no-harm is incompatible with > the Condorcet criterion. Is there a general proof or a set of examples > illustrating this? Plus, are there any examples not involving circular > ties? Douglas Woodall showed this

Re: [EM] Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Tim, --- Tim Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > DSC uses a somewhat interesting method - it effectively goes and excludes > the groups of candidates that the most people prefer a "solid coalition" > to > until it finds a winner. However, what I am wondering is - what are the > primary flaws of

[EM] [Fwd: Condorcet and the later-no-harm criterion]

2006-12-22 Thread mrouse1
According to wikitest.electorama.com, later-no-harm is incompatible with the Condorcet criterion. Is there a general proof or a set of examples illustrating this? Plus, are there any examples not involving circular ties? Thanks! Michael Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] election-methods mailing lis

[EM] RE : RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Warren, --- Warren Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Approval with mean-as-threshold seemed to "look bad" in the sense that > it could prevent some candidates from ever winning, and make their > winning regions > lie far away from them if they existed. We know that Approval is a method that r

Re: [EM] RE : Re: Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread Tim Hull
DSC uses a somewhat interesting method - it effectively goes and excludes the groups of candidates that the most people prefer a "solid coalition" to until it finds a winner. However, what I am wondering is - what are the primary flaws of these two methods (especially as compared with IRV, of whi

[EM] RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Raphfrk, --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > Btw, how hard is it to calculate the voronoi diagram ? I think it is pretty hard. I also doubt I can afford to calculate a Voronoi diagram of voters for every election, since the point of it is supposed to be to save time. > It might be interesting to

[EM] RE : Re: Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Tim, --- Tim Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > At this point, I'd say the choice is between IRV/STV and some form of > range/approval voting (for single and multi-winner elections). The issue > of > later-no-harm may come into play, though, and cause IRV/STV to be the > choice... As it is, st

[EM] RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Warren Smith
[EM] RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures Voronoi diagram of N points in plane is computable in O(NlogN) time by methods that are nowadays standard. (See Preparata & Shamos book, Mulmuley book, etc; also equivalent thing [but planar dual] is "Delaunay triangulation".) Not a trivial

Re: [EM] Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread Tim Hull
The method sounds interesting and all... but I think we're going to end up doing something a little more *traditional* in this regard. Asset voting et al is off the table - though it does sound like an interesting idea. At this point, I'd say the choice is between IRV/STV and some form of range/

Re: [EM] Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread raphfrk
> That said, I really don't like the process of asset voting - which seems > like a separate idea than proxies. This is because it takes control away > from the voter in much the same way party lists do except that each > candidate is effectively a "party". It sounds like an interesting sy

[EM] Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread raphfrk
Btw, how hard is it to calculate the voronoi diagram ? It might be interesting to have the simulation automatically overlay the voronoi diagram lines on the results (maybe have it as a switch). This assumes there is concensus that the voronou digram is the optimal result. Raphfrk ---

Re: [EM] Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread raphfrk
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 3. Random tie-breaking is essential so all candiate winnign chances are > always > 100% independent of the candidate-ordering. Definately. > 4. I find Venzke's discovery with a 10-candidate set that "IRV tends to favor > outsiders" > whereas "Approval(mean-ba

Re: [EM] RE : Re: Election methods in student government...

2006-12-22 Thread Dave Ketchum
Too late at night to remember exactly what LNH means but, assuming it REALLY calls IRV better than Condorcet, I have to offer a compensating example. Given: 37 A 31 B33B>32C while 65C>37A). 2 C - C still wins. What it all means: Condorcet looks at all that the voters say, while IRV

[EM] RE : Comments on the Yee/Bolson/et.al. pictures

2006-12-22 Thread Kevin Venzke
Warren, --- Warren Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > 4. I find Venzke's discovery with a 10-candidate set that "IRV tends to > favor outsiders" > whereas "Approval(mean-based cutoff) tends to favor centrists" very > interesting. > But it needs more investigation with (a) more random 10-point s