Re: [EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread Warren Smith
Duverger's words on this: http://rangevoting.org/DuvTrans.html Warren D Smith http://rangevoting.org election-methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

[EM] Proposal

2007-02-23 Thread Forest W Simmons
This is for those that didn't see this proposal buried in the details of a longer posting. There it was called method 1' . Here I'll call it UncAA for reasons that I will explain later: >From each covered candidate draw an arrow to the most approved candidate that covers it. Then start with

Re: [EM] MCA, MAMPO, etc.

2007-02-23 Thread Forest W Simmons
Chris B. should get more credit for MCA than I, since he has been more active in bringing it to the fore. What about 3-slot MAMPO? Which would be better, 3-slot MAMPO or the following hybrid of MCA and MAMPO? Ballots are 3-slot. If exactly one candidate gets into the highest slot on more than

Re: [EM] Juho reply, 21 Feb., 1053 GMT

2007-02-23 Thread James Gilmour
Juho> Sent: 22 February 2007 06:29 > On Feb 22, 2007, at 5:50 , Dave Ketchum wrote: > > STAY AWAY from US Presidential elections. The Electoral College > > offers too many complications to live with for this effort. > > Ok, let it be UK then, electing a MP (excluding at least the > Scottish Pa

Re: [EM] Linked issues, 1-dimensional political spectrum (correcting Ossipoff AGAIN)

2007-02-23 Thread Warren Smith
Right after I pointed out that Ossipoff was repeating a falsehood about Condorcet, and went to the trouble of making an executive summary webpage to correct him in less space http://rangevoting.org/BlackSExec.html Ossipoff then repested the same falsehood AGAIN 17 hours later. How long will

Re: [EM] When and how can we speak of "individual utility" and "social utility"?

2007-02-23 Thread raphfrk
Martin Bailey suggested "maximise the probability of minimising harm" as the method to combine utility functions into a single social decision. For something like this to work, there would need to be a reference point as the question then becomes, "minimise harm relative to what?". Anywa

[EM] Linked issues, 1-dimensional political spectrum

2007-02-23 Thread Michael Ossipoff
One thing that I forgot to mention when I posted before about this: In the U.S. at least, the issues are strongly linked. People's opinions on them are strongly correlated. That's because an authoritarian is going to be authoritarian on everything, typically. So a 1-dimensional issue-space isn

[EM] Juho's example

2007-02-23 Thread Michael Ossipoff
The first things that stands out about Juho’s example is the fact that there is no majority preferring B to C. So one could ask in what way it is a problem for C to win instead of B. C is the favorite of only one voter? We don’t claim to be choosing the winner by Plurality. Condorcet chooses

Re: [EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread raphfrk
Just forwarding my reply: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jan Kok" wrote: > > > > 1. Different strategy calculations by voters under the two systems. > > Voters who like a "third party" candidate seem more willing to vote > > for their favorite in the first round of TTR, than corresponding

[EM] MCA, IRNR, IEVS, retraction

2007-02-23 Thread Warren Smith
>MCA is Forest's method, unless you've made some change to it... --oh. Sorry, I thought it was from Benham. Anyhow, it is this: canddt with most-2approvals wins if gets >50%, else regular approval-winner wins where there are 3 kinds of votes: disapprove, approve, and 2approve (a higher level

[EM] RE : CW & SU (response to Ossipoff false claims)

2007-02-23 Thread Kevin Venzke
Warren, --- Warren Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > The high-SU methods include range voting, Brian Olson's IRNR system, and > range+top2runoff, > and Benham's MCA system (a 3-slot approval-like method). MCA is Forest's method, unless you've made some change to it... > Approval Voting using

[EM] CW & SU (response to Ossipoff false claims)

2007-02-23 Thread Warren Smith
I suggest to Mike Ossipoff that after I point out to him that I refuted his false claims in a web page http://rangevoting.org/BlackSingle.html#condmyth he at least consult that web page BEFORE making claims that have already been disproved there. I already gave examples in 1D where the Condor

Re: [EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 06:17 AM 2/23/2007, Jan Kok wrote: >2. Under IRV, if a "third party" candidate makes it to the last round, >it draws little attention from the media. But under TTR, when there is >a runoff, both candidates get equal attention for several weeks. This >lets the finalists compete on an equal basis,

Re: [EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread Dave Ketchum
IRV completes its election on election day. We know the winner. While we could and should know who was second, there is nothing to be done about such. Voters do not have solid data as to other candidates. TTR: Can complete election in one day - but, even here, we should know who was se

Re: [EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread Juho
The web page listed some interesting factors that may have effect but I think it didn't provide a complete plausible explanation to the two party domination questions and the role of IRV and top-two runoff in this. > Why do those two methods, which seem strategically quite similar, lead t

[EM] Why does IRV but not delayed top-two runoff lead to 2-party domination?

2007-02-23 Thread Jan Kok
The statistical evidence at http://rangevoting.org/TTRvIRVstats.html seems pretty good that IRV leads to two party domination in IRV elections, while (delayed) top two runoff tends to lead to a strong multiparty system. Why do those two methods, which seem strategically quite similar, lead to such