Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 01:16 PM 5/25/2007, Chris Backert wrote: >Any analysis of tabulation cost must consider the length of the ballot. In >the United States in particular you'll find the number of races and ballot >complexity are some of the primary factors in analyzing tabulation costs. It might be noted that the

Re: [EM] HR811 and Federal paper trail legislation

2007-05-25 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 12:23 AM 5/25/2007, Michael Poole wrote: >Thus, "millions" seems easily supportable, although the question >remains as to how to make ballots more accessible to these people. Yes, "millions" is supportable, easily. That is no more than a few percent of eligible voters. However, I don't see pr

Re: [EM] HR811 and Federal paper trail legislation

2007-05-25 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:39 AM 5/24/2007, Chris Backert wrote [privately to me]: >With all due respect I think a better education on the topic would boggle >your mind a bit less. You are incorrect that in your assumption that a >"simple" paper ballot would satisfy the requirements, nor would it be a >workable solutio

Re: [EM] HR811 and Federal paper trail legislation

2007-05-25 Thread James Gilmour
> From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax> Sent: 25 May 2007 21:16 > I've heard only one substantial objection to ballot imaging, and I > consider it spurious and misled or misleading. And that is the > privacy of the voter. The privacy of the voter is not violated by > ballot imaging. First of all, there is

Re: [EM] HR811 and Federal paper trail legislation

2007-05-25 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 07:50 PM 5/24/2007, Kathy Dopp wrote: >On 5/24/07, James Gilmour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I am surprised you say "millions". Does this reflect the > illiteracy level? Or some other factors > affecting ability to > complete ballots? If so, what factors? What type of voting > met

[EM] Dartmouth uses Approval Voting to elect trustees

2007-05-25 Thread Jan Kok
So, who turned the Dartmouth Board of Trustees on to the idea of using Approval Voting? Whoever it was, thank you! - Jan http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enews/releases/2007/05/17d.html Dartmouth Board of Trustees elects Stephen F. Smith Dartmouth College Office of Public Affairs • Press Release Post

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Jonathan Lundell
On May 25, 2007, at 10:40 AM, James Gilmour wrote: >> Brian Olson> Sent: 25 May 2007 17:59 >> >> I think this reinforces my position that the current best mix of >> speed, reliability, trustworthiness and cost is to have people >> reading >> ballots punching data into common desktop computers. >

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread James Gilmour
> Brian Olson> Sent: 25 May 2007 17:59 > > I think this reinforces my position that the current best mix of > speed, reliability, trustworthiness and cost is to have people reading > ballots punching data into common desktop computers. > > Assuming the recognition is correct, missed kepresses s

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Chris Backert
Do you have any actual evidence or research to back up that, in my opinion, rather bold position? - Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Olson Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:59 PM To: election-methods@electorama.com Subject: Re: [EM

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Chris Backert
Any analysis of tabulation cost must consider the length of the ballot. In the United States in particular you'll find the number of races and ballot complexity are some of the primary factors in analyzing tabulation costs. - Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAI

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Brian Olson
I think this reinforces my position that the current best mix of speed, reliability, trustworthiness and cost is to have people reading ballots punching data into common desktop computers. Assuming the recognition is correct, missed kepresses should be relatively rare, and there can be redundan

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread James Gilmour
> Brian Olson > Sent: 25 May 2007 16:34 > In most estimates that I think are reasonable, machines come out bad to > very bad. Unless you think it's worth paying the premium price for fast > election night returns. It does also depend on the voting system you are using and the version of the rul

Re: [EM] Cost of Manual Counting vs. Machine Counting

2007-05-25 Thread Brian Olson
Or, for the short-short version, I've made this: http://bolson.org/cgi-bin/vote_tco In most estimates that I think are reasonable, machines come out bad to very bad. Unless you think it's worth paying the premium price for fast election night returns. Brian Olson http://bolson.org/ elect

Re: [EM] HR811 and Federal paper trail legislation

2007-05-25 Thread James Gilmour
> From: Kathy Dopp > Sent: 25 May 2007 00:50 > On 5/24/07, James Gilmour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Chris Backert > Sent: 24 May 2007 19:39 > > > > > For one, saying "can't we just use paper ballots" > > > ignores the millions of American's who are unable to use paper > > > ballots. > > > >