[EM] IRV non-monotonicity probability

2009-03-17 Thread Warren Smith
http://rangevoting.org/Monotone.html now summarizes knowledge on this - updated & corrected. Summary at end. I think the Quas-Smith theorem is rather devastating theoretically speaking - you get 100% limit probability (if large # candidates) of having nonmonotonicity existing in your election in

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: > I would say that the only way to make it summable is to do it my way, or at > least emulate my way. From what you say, it seems that they make it > "summable" by eliminating all but two candidates and then seeing which one > wins; th

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Kathy Dopp wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Dave Ketchum wrote: There has been a lot of guessing - let's see if I can do better, though wishing to move to Condorcet: Precinct-summable IRV is not reachable. The first counts of top ranks have to be centrally summed to identify certain lo

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Dave Ketchum wrote: > There has been a lot of guessing - let's see if I can do better, though > wishing to move to Condorcet: > > Precinct-summable IRV is not reachable.  The first counts of top ranks have > to be centrally summed to identify certain losers.  Then

Re: [EM] Democracy

2009-03-17 Thread Fred Gohlke
Good Morning, Don Thank you for taking the time to comment on my outline of Practical Democracy. Among other things, you hypothesized ... "A retired worker 75 year old who ... is not interested in being the city manager. He would thus not want the other two to vote for him. By

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: > Sure - if you have an elimination method where you batch eliminate all > candidates but k, where k is some constant, then do a count among those, > that method will be summable. Since k is a constant, k! will also be. The > constant

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Kathy Dopp wrote: Wow, I had to laugh out loud after finally figuring out these instructions that Chris Telesca of NC sent me in this PDF doc: "Instant Runoff Voting, Single‐Seat Contests, ES&S Optical Scan Tabulation Procedures" http://electionmathematics.org/em-IRV/NC/IRVcountingProced.pdf

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
Apologies for the double post and my logic error of stating that the IRV proponents with the help of ES&S found a way to make IRV precinct-summable when of course they only found a way to count one of the easiest possible IRV rounds (one with only two candidates continuing in the contest) using tod

[EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
Wow, I had to laugh out loud after finally figuring out these instructions that Chris Telesca of NC sent me in this PDF doc: "Instant Runoff Voting, Single‐Seat Contests, ES&S Optical Scan Tabulation Procedures" http://electionmathematics.org/em-IRV/NC/IRVcountingProced.pdf Aren't IRV proponent

[EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-17 Thread Kathy Dopp
Wow, I had to laugh out loud after finally figuring out these instructions that Chris Telesca of NC sent me in this PDF doc: "Instant Runoff Voting, Single‐Seat Contests, ES&S Optical Scan Tabulation Procedures" http://electionmathematics.org/em-IRV/NC/IRVcountingProced.pdf Aren't IRV proponent

Re: [EM] critical theory - election methods as a remedy

2009-03-17 Thread Michael Allan
Fred Gohlke wrote: > Good Morning, Michael > > re: "... you might consider that a strict implementation of your > method is unnecessary ... " > > I outlined a concept, implementation is a separate step. It is, I think, > inevitable that the implementors will modify the method to suit the >