Forest Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Ken Johnson wrote:
It may be that majority rule is preferable, but as illustrated above it
is clearly not self-evident that majority rule is always preferable.
Therefore majority rule should not be posited axiomatically; it needs to
be justified on th
In my earlier post, I didn't pay close enough attention to the
definition for this criterion:
James Green-Armytage wrote:
>
> majority criterion: If a majority of the voters prefers all of the members
> of a given set of candidates over all candidates outside that set, and
> they vote sincerely,
I apologize: my mistake.
First I ment long not hard and second if you've got the (wo)manpower it is not really
long.
I'm sorry it was the feeling I got after resolving alone 12 elections of 15 candidates
and 15 voters.
So please everyone, I remove that opinion,
STV is perfectly feasible by hand
> James (sorry, I'm not sure which one) wrote:
[OK, but the actual Sender should appear in the "From..." box in your message list.]
I (James GILMOUR) has written:
> Even if it were possible to "do the whole Knesset in one
> district", I would most strongly advise
> > against it. The underlying p
It's this sort of scenario that bothers me:
45 A
35 B(>C) (i.e. may or may not approve C)
20 C(>B)
It's possible that A will win this.
Also, whether voters approve a candidate depends not just on utility but on
odds predictions. It's possible that the favorite candidate by any measure will
los
B"H
James (sorry, I'm not sure which one) wrote:
Even if it were possible to "do the the whole Knesset in one district", I would most strongly advise> against it. The underlying problems with politics in Israel are exacerbated by the large number of> very small parties that gain seats in the K
--- Eric Gorr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> I bring this up because of something I just learned about...a
> proposed Ordinance for Roseville, MN concerning IRV.
I live southwest of there. I saw a little article about it in a local paper.
What I thought was astounding and disheartening about
At 3:53 PM -0500 3/15/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Quoting Eric Gorr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if, for IRV (and probably any
other ranked method for that matter), voters are limited to ranking
only a certain number of candidates, then the method would no longe
Quoting Eric Gorr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if, for IRV (and probably any
> other ranked method for that matter), voters are limited to ranking
> only a certain number of candidates, then the method would no longer
> meet the ICC, if it had done so before, a
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004, Markus Schulze wrote:
> Dear Forest,
>
> in the probabilistic context, a single-winner election
> method is "dictatorial" if there exists a probability
> distribution p[1],...,p[V] on the set of voters so that,
> independently on how the voters vote, this method can be
> descr
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:55:34 -0500
From: Eric Gorr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
... suppose the CR profile with a third
candidate C is as follows,
55%: A=99, B=100, C=0
45%: A=99, B=0, C=100
Now, unless the B supporters know for sure that they are a majority,
they will vote sincerely and the el
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Ken Johnson wrote:
> It may be that majority rule is preferable, but as illustrated above it
> is clearly not self-evident that majority rule is always preferable.
> Therefore majority rule should not be posited axiomatically; it needs to
> be justified on the basis of a more
Eric Gorr wrote:
> Now, if you can present an example where the Condorcet winner, with a
> reasonable interpretation of the ballots, did not win, you may have a
> good discussion on your hands.
11 - L:10,C:0,R:0
44 - L:1,C:10,R:0
45 - L:0,C:0,R:10
L is the Condorcet winner, but CR has R winning.
Note to everyone: disregard my last message.
Note to everyone: always verify your results. ;-)
aaarrrggg...
--
== Eric Gorr = http://www.ericgorr.net = ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like
At 10:17 AM -0800 3/15/04, Ken Johnson wrote:
What has gone wrong? Consider, for example, a specific CR profile:
55%: A=99, B=100
45%: A=99, B=0
If people vote sincerely, the election goes to candidate A. Of
course, the voters who have a slight preference for B may
insincerely give A a zero ratin
Stephane Rouillon a écrit :
> STV is hard to resolve without a computer.
Sorry, Stephane, but I just have to say "rubbish".
STV-PR has been done with paper ballots and hand sorting and hand counting in Ireland
for Dáil and
local Council elections since 1920 and in Northern Ireland for Assembly a
James Green-Armytage wrote:
I wrote:
majority criterion: If a majority of the voters prefers all of the members of a given set of candidates over all candidates outside that set, and they vote sincerely, then the winning candidate should come from that set.
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:29:33 -0800 Ernest Prabhakar wrote:
On Mar 14, 2004, at 8:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Quoting Ernest Prabhakar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Using existing census data, one could trivially create open source
software that would suggest possible districts. Anyone could submit
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if, for IRV (and probably any
other ranked method for that matter), voters are limited to ranking
only a certain number of candidates, then the method would no longer
meet the ICC, if it had done so before, and vote splitting could
again become a problem.
James Green-Armytage wrote:
> Let's say that 55% of an electorate are to the left of the center,
> and 45% are to the right of center. If a method goes ahead and
> elects a right of center candidate anyway, then we know something
> has gone wrong.
11 - L:10,C:0,R:0
44 - L:1,C:10,R:0
45 - L:0,C:0,
James Gilmour a écrit :
> > >James Gilmour had written:
> > >As you are also a citizen of Ireland, I am surprised you did not
> > >recognise the potential benefits of changing the Knesset voting system
> > >to STV-PR, as used in Ireland. The only two changes from Dáil
> > >Éireann I would suggest
James Gilmour a écrit :
> > >James Gilmour had written:
> > >As you are also a citizen of Ireland, I am surprised you did not
> > >recognise the potential benefits of changing the Knesset voting system
> > >to STV-PR, as used in Ireland. The only two changes from Dáil
> > >Éireann I would suggest
James Green-Armytage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bart Ingles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:>In other words,>if the PM election allows ratings of 1-10, a sophisticated voter would>give each candidate either 1 or 10.>Presently we vote for the parties that comprise the Knesset separately>from the PM. I
Quoting Ernest Prabhakar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> The point is that rather than hiring a few elite groups to submit
> proposals (and thus risk conflicts of interest or collusion), one could
> make it easy for anyone to submit a proposal, and just have a
> centralized judging facility working on o
Quoting Ernest Prabhakar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Not really, if you're willing to use a non-deterministic optimization
> algorithm.
>
I wasn't clear. With a single objective optimization the best re-districting is
the one that achieves the smallest (or largest for maximization) objective.
The p
Dave Ketchum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:48:44 -0800 (PST) Doreen Dotan wrote:> B"H Absentee ballots get enclosed in envelopes, and the envelopes identify the voter - with the ballot removed before being counted.
Only recently has Israeli law been changed to allow diplomats
I wrote:
>>majority criterion: If a majority of the voters prefers all of the
>members
>>of a given set of candidates over all candidates outside that set, and
>>they vote sincerely, then the winning candidate should come from that
>set.
>>
Ken Johnson wrote:
>
>James - Can you elucidate why this
> >James Gilmour had written:
> >As you are also a citizen of Ireland, I am surprised you did not
> >recognise the potential benefits of changing the Knesset voting system
> >to STV-PR, as used in Ireland. The only two changes from Dáil
> >Éireann I would suggest are larger electoral districts a
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:22:10 -0800
To: Doreen Dotan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
From: "James Green-Armytage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I may as well point out that there is some controversy on the list about
the merits of approval voting. I happen to be a person who is a bit more
dubious about it th
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:48:44 -0800 (PST) Doreen Dotan wrote:
B"H
Hello. I'm Doreen Ellen Bell-Dotan and I live in a town called Tzfat,
which is the Galilee of Israel. I'm still a passport-carrying US-born
citizen, although I assumed Israeli citizenship about a year after
arriving here twen
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